[liberationtech] Deep Divers, there is no such thing as liberation tech

[Karl]

Wonderful =)

It sounds like you need help making sure people are acting on each others'
knowledge?

On Tue, May 5, 2020, 12:26 PM Doug Schuler <douglas at publicsphereproject.org>
wrote:

> Couldn't we just look at what pages people spend the most time with? The
> amount of advertising. The percentage of commercial sites vs.
> non-commercial. I didn't think that corporate and state domination of the
> internet was in dispute.
>
> But I don't think we could point to one person! There are plenty of local
> fiefdoms ruled not just by corporations (although money I assume plays a
> massive role) China and Russia, etc.
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:08 AM Karl <gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Doug,
>>
>> It sounds like you're aware of the internet being solely
>> corporate-dominated.
>>
>> If we had proof that someone were algorithmically ensuring that the
>> internet stayed corporate-dominated, do you know of a way to preserve and
>> possibly publicize such proof?
>>
>> On Tue, May 5, 2020, 11:49 AM Doug Schuler <
>> douglas at publicsphereproject.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Technology absolutely has politics since it's embedded within social
>>> (and material) contexts. I like Langdon's quote in the Whale and the
>>> Reactor: "Because choices tend to become strongly fixed in material
>>> equipment, economic investment, and social habit, the original flexibility
>>> vanishes for all practical purposes once the initial commitments are made."
>>>
>>> On the other hand, technology is not strictly deterministic. A hospital
>>> can be used to help heal people or it can be used to imprison them and to
>>> perform experiments on them. Television doesn't have to be a solely
>>> corporate dominated medium nor does the internet — but they are.
>>>
>>> — Doug
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 7:39 AM Aram Sinnreich <aramsinnreich at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What do you make of Langdon Winner's work, arguing that sociotechnical
>>>> artifacts have inherent "politics?"
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> > On May 5, 2020, at 10:33 AM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Technology is but an agnostic tool.
>>>> > There is no such thing as a liberation tech,
>>>> > only applied tech via paths toward something.
>>>> > One cannot apply a tech toward liberation
>>>> > without first considering what a state of being
>>>> > of actual liberation might variously be about,
>>>> > to know where to go, what to make with the tech.
>>>> > Democracy being nothing more than a
>>>> > decentralized form of the murderous dictators
>>>> > many claim to be liberating themselves or people from,
>>>> > both forms hardly a state of liberation at all,
>>>> > yet worshipped and profferred by all too many,
>>>> > we therefore continue this random series
>>>> > on path choices...
>>>> >
>>>> > How to be a tyrant. Sound Familiar?
>>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4LtEciQUF8
>>>> >
>>>> > Deep Divers, let the balloon go!
>>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbX-Bvb2u_w
>>>> >
>>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U3lEc-IFr8
>>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWLntHoTgDA
>>>> >
>>>> > --
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Douglas Schuler
>>> douglas at publicsphereproject.org
>>> Twitter: @doug_schuler
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>      http://www.publicsphereproject.org/
>>>
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>>>
>>> Creating the World Citizen Parliament
>>>
>>> http://interactions.acm.org/archive/view/may-june-2013/creating-the-world-citizen-parliament
>>>
>>> Liberating Voices!  A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution
>>> (project)
>>>      http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/lv
>>> <http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/>
>>>
>>> Liberating Voices!  A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution
>>> (book)
>>>  http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601
>>> --
>>> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major
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>>
>>
>
> --
> Douglas Schuler
> douglas at publicsphereproject.org
> Twitter: @doug_schuler
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Public Sphere Project
>      http://www.publicsphereproject.org/
>
> Mailing list ~ Collective Intelligence for the Common Good
>      * http://lists.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/ci
> <http://lists.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/ci>4cg-announce*
>
> Creating the World Citizen Parliament
>
> http://interactions.acm.org/archive/view/may-june-2013/creating-the-world-citizen-parliament
>
> Liberating Voices!  A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution
> (project)
>      http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/lv
> <http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/>
>
> Liberating Voices!  A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution
> (book)
>  http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601
>
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