[liberationtech] [cpsr-activists] Rebuttal to "The Social Dilemma" Movie

Yosem Companys ycompanys at gmail.com
Sat Oct 3 21:03:02 CEST 2020 

Also, we are working on making the filling out and submittal of FEC forms
automatic, so people will do so without even realizing it upon signing up
for the app.

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 12:01 PM Yosem Companys <ycompanys at gmail.com> wrote:

> Agreed. Unfortunately, FEC form is required for donating. For candidates
> (especially local ones), however, our app would streamline campaign finance
> because our app does all the paperwork automatically in the back end, so
> candidates would dramatically reduce the administrative burdens that often
> prevent them from being able to accept small donations.
>
> On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 11:50 AM Paul <tallpaul at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the response, Yosem.
>>     #2 (the *second *#2 😛) is especially interesting, though filling
>> out an FEC form feels to me like a fairly big obstacle to entry for users.
>>
>>   Paul Cz.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 3, 2020, 8:35 AM Yosem Companys <ycompanys at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> 1. Wevoyce doesn't return any hits on Google Play.  Is the app only
>>> available from your site, at this time?
>>>
>>> The app is approved for the Apple and Android stores, but we have yet to
>>> open for downloads. The only way to download the app at this time is via
>>> special link. I will send you one separately.
>>>
>>> 2. When it talks about propositions (I think that was the word) does
>>> this mean only actual laws, ballot proposals, etc, or does it mean just
>>> something that someone advocates and is looking for support for?
>>>
>>> Think of a prop as a 435-character petition labeled by a hashtag. There
>>> are two types:
>>>
>>>    - ?VoteFor props that are automatically tied to candidates (e.g.,
>>>    ?VoteForBiden or ?VoteForTrump).
>>>    - Props focused on causes (e.g., ?SupportProChoice or
>>>    ?SupportProLife).
>>>
>>> Users can interact with props as they would on social media:
>>>
>>>    - Follow props.
>>>    - Reply to props.
>>>    - Like props.
>>>    - Etc.
>>>
>>> 2. Do you have to put in $5 in order to use the app, or just if you want
>>> to contribute?
>>>
>>> No, just if you want to contribute.
>>>
>>> Participation is tiered based on real-world validation:
>>>
>>>    - Using the app is free (i.e., there is no financial cost to using
>>>    the app). Anyone may download the app, set up an account, and do the
>>>    following: (1) read propositions, (2) read what people post, and (3) vote
>>>    on props and what people say.
>>>    - Anyone who registers to vote (and thus verifies they are a real
>>>    person) may post.
>>>    - Anyone who fills out the FEC form may donate. To ensure real
>>>    people have a real impact, donating occurs via liking, as little as a
>>>    penny. We call it, "Put your $ where your <3 is." Anytime you like
>>>    something, you are donating to it, so you need to put at least $5 in your
>>>    account to like things.
>>>
>>> One thing to note is that all the donations end up going to political
>>> candidates in at least three ways (and this is how we are campaign finance
>>> reform in an app):
>>>
>>>    - You may donate to candidates directly via their VoteFor prop.
>>>    - You may advocate candidates. If anyone likes you, any likes (i.e.,
>>>    real money) you receive go to the candidate(s) you advocate.
>>>    - You may donate to a cause prop, and politicians who publicly
>>>    commit to support these causes get a share of the donations. (You are told
>>>    in advance who will get your donations.)
>>>
>>> Reading, voting, and donating can be private. Posting is always public.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 12:55 PM Paul <tallpaul at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Yosem,
>>>>      I just started the signup process and I have three questions:
>>>>     1) do you have to put in $5 in order to use the app, or just if you
>>>> want to contribute?
>>>>     2) Wevoyce doesn't return any hits on Google Play.  Is the app only
>>>> available from your site, at this time?
>>>>     3) when it talks about propositions (I think that was the word)
>>>> does this mean only actual laws, ballot proposals, etc, or does it mean
>>>> just something that someone advocates and is looking for support for?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>   Paul
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 12:18 PM Paul <tallpaul at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Yosem,
>>>>>    Thanks for letting us know about Wevoyce. I just skimmed it but the
>>>>> bits about "real people*," upvoting and, especially, micro donations, sound
>>>>> very interesting.
>>>>>    Since my career has been in software testing, I will at least try
>>>>> it and let you know about anything I see.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Paul Czyzewski
>>>>>
>>>>> * As long as you don't get swamped by real people who are, for
>>>>> example, Proud Boys or NRA members
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 12:04 PM Yosem Companys <ycompanys at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Excellent point, Nathaniel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of us at Liberationtech have gotten together to try to fix
>>>>>> political discourse on social media and campaign finance by developing a
>>>>>> new mobile-based solution called Wevoyce. If you and others on the list
>>>>>> would like to check it out and give us feedback, please let me know. We
>>>>>> would really appreciate it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Yosem
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 11:42 AM Nathaniel Borenstein via
>>>>>> cpsr-activists list <cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This may sound naive, but here goes…
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Social media are just the latest way for people to communicate.  All
>>>>>>> the other ways we have found to communicate have allowed us to express both
>>>>>>> the best and the worst of ourselves.  It’s often easier to figure out how
>>>>>>> to express the worst, but that doesn’t mean we can’t focus on the best.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To my mind the right question is this:  how can we use social media
>>>>>>> to create countervailing trends to the ones we have spent so much time
>>>>>>> bemoaning?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately it is possible that the best answers to this question
>>>>>>> will require wrenching control of the social media landscape from big
>>>>>>> companies, but I suspect there is a fair amount we can do short of that. —
>>>>>>> Nathaniel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2020, at 12:33 PM, Doug Schuler via cpsr-activists list <
>>>>>>> cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One question is certainly why would one person use social media. The
>>>>>>> "CPSR" angle on it in my opinion would be something like this: Given the
>>>>>>> immense damage that social media as it's currently deployed and used wreaks
>>>>>>> on society, the public sphere, democracy, mental health, whatever you want
>>>>>>> to call it, what ought computer professionals do about it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems like other hams that are perpetrated in that it affects
>>>>>>> different people unequally.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I would also argue that, as with TV, individuals can "turn it
>>>>>>> off" but they can't turn off social media culture...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:28 PM Paul via cpsr-activists list <
>>>>>>> cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> rant
>>>>>>>>>     I think that the crucial issue with facebook, twitter, etc is
>>>>>>>>> not just how manipulative they are, or are not.  It's how Jeff long ago
>>>>>>>>> answered TV.  I.E., don't use it at all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>      Of course I realize that this side-steps the issue for the
>>>>>>>>> hundreds of millions of people who *do* use them.   But, news aside, they
>>>>>>>>> are too much of a time sink and, IMO, the signal to noise ratio is
>>>>>>>>> unbelievably low.*  Since I'm ranting, I'll throw in my Twitter analogy;
>>>>>>>>> it's like opening and reading two hundred fortune cookies because
>>>>>>>>> *one* of them may include something that you're glad you've
>>>>>>>>> read.**  I'm not a very productive person, and I'm in no critical function
>>>>>>>>> (well, for a few more weeks, I will help some US Census enumerators who are
>>>>>>>>> having payroll issues) but, even when I'm unemployed, my time is *far* too
>>>>>>>>> valuable to spend on social media.
>>>>>>>>>     One more opinion before I step off my high-horse.  Getting
>>>>>>>>> news from Facebook or other social media is totally a losing proposition.
>>>>>>>>> Advising people on how to fix it, or how to confirm what they read, is a
>>>>>>>>> waste of time.  The crucial part of getting news is to somehow find some
>>>>>>>>> trustworthy sources, and start from there.  I don't agree with the spin on
>>>>>>>>> everything in the NY Times but I fully believe that, for reasons of the
>>>>>>>>> personal integrity of the journalists and also to protect their bottom
>>>>>>>>> line, they are never going to invent things that they print.
>>>>>>>>> /rant off
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> paul czyzewski
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * if there was a way for me to just see my friends' family photos
>>>>>>>>> on facebook; ie, no news, and also no "vital" links passed on my
>>>>>>>>> well-meaning friends, I'd probably start looking at it again.  But I think
>>>>>>>>> that there is (deliberately) no way to filter it that way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **  I once gave twitter what I thought was a fair test. There
>>>>>>>>> were tsunami warnings in Hawaii so I used  some filter -- I don't know if
>>>>>>>>> it's still exists or not -- to watch a stream of tweets about that,
>>>>>>>>> real-time.  Instead of the hoped-for "I see the wave entering the harbor;
>>>>>>>>> small boats are being overturned," I saw tweets on the order of "The news
>>>>>>>>> reported that, 30 minutes ago, the waves were twenty miles away."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:46 PM Jeff Johnson via cpsr-activists
>>>>>>>>> list <cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This article argues that “The Social Dilemma” movie is overblown:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200928/11452045401/social-dilemma-manipulates-you-with-misinformation-as-it-tries-to-warn-you-manipulation-misinformation.shtml
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>>>>>>>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/cpsr-activists
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>      cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>>>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>>>>>>      cpsr-activists-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>>>>>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/cpsr-activists
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Douglas Schuler
>>>>>>> douglas at publicsphereproject.org
>>>>>>> Twitter: @doug_schuler
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Public Sphere Project
>>>>>>>      http://www.publicsphereproject.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mailing list ~ Collective Intelligence for the Common Good
>>>>>>>      * http://lists.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/ci
>>>>>>> <http://lists.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/ci>4cg-announce*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Creating the World Citizen Parliament
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://interactions.acm.org/archive/view/may-june-2013/creating-the-world-citizen-parliament
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Liberating Voices!  A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution
>>>>>>> (project)
>>>>>>>      http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/lv
>>>>>>> <http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Liberating Voices!  A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution
>>>>>>> (book)
>>>>>>>  http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601
>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>>>>      cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>>>>>      cpsr-activists-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/cpsr-activists
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>>>>      cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>>>>>>      cpsr-activists-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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