[liberationtech] [cpsr-activists] Rebuttal to "The Social Dilemma" Movie
Paul
tallpaul at gmail.com
Thu Oct 1 21:18:36 CEST 2020
Hi Yosem,
Thanks for letting us know about Wevoyce. I just skimmed it but the bits
about "real people*," upvoting and, especially, micro donations, sound very
interesting.
Since my career has been in software testing, I will at least try it and
let you know about anything I see.
Paul Czyzewski
* As long as you don't get swamped by real people who are, for example,
Proud Boys or NRA members
On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 12:04 PM Yosem Companys <ycompanys at gmail.com> wrote:
> Excellent point, Nathaniel.
>
> Some of us at Liberationtech have gotten together to try to fix political
> discourse on social media and campaign finance by developing a new
> mobile-based solution called Wevoyce. If you and others on the list would
> like to check it out and give us feedback, please let me know. We would
> really appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
> Yosem
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 11:42 AM Nathaniel Borenstein via cpsr-activists
> list <cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org> wrote:
>
>> This may sound naive, but here goes…
>>
>> Social media are just the latest way for people to communicate. All the
>> other ways we have found to communicate have allowed us to express both the
>> best and the worst of ourselves. It’s often easier to figure out how to
>> express the worst, but that doesn’t mean we can’t focus on the best.
>>
>> To my mind the right question is this: how can we use social media to
>> create countervailing trends to the ones we have spent so much time
>> bemoaning?
>>
>> Unfortunately it is possible that the best answers to this question will
>> require wrenching control of the social media landscape from big companies,
>> but I suspect there is a fair amount we can do short of that. — Nathaniel
>>
>> On Oct 1, 2020, at 12:33 PM, Doug Schuler via cpsr-activists list <
>> cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org> wrote:
>>
>> One question is certainly why would one person use social media. The
>> "CPSR" angle on it in my opinion would be something like this: Given the
>> immense damage that social media as it's currently deployed and used wreaks
>> on society, the public sphere, democracy, mental health, whatever you want
>> to call it, what ought computer professionals do about it?
>>
>> It seems like other hams that are perpetrated in that it affects
>> different people unequally.
>>
>> But I would also argue that, as with TV, individuals can "turn it off"
>> but they can't turn off social media culture...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:28 PM Paul via cpsr-activists list <
>> cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> rant
>>>> I think that the crucial issue with facebook, twitter, etc is not
>>>> just how manipulative they are, or are not. It's how Jeff long ago
>>>> answered TV. I.E., don't use it at all.
>>>>
>>>> Of course I realize that this side-steps the issue for the
>>>> hundreds of millions of people who *do* use them. But, news aside, they
>>>> are too much of a time sink and, IMO, the signal to noise ratio is
>>>> unbelievably low.* Since I'm ranting, I'll throw in my Twitter analogy;
>>>> it's like opening and reading two hundred fortune cookies because *one*
>>>> of them may include something that you're glad you've read.** I'm not a
>>>> very productive person, and I'm in no critical function (well, for a few
>>>> more weeks, I will help some US Census enumerators who are having payroll
>>>> issues) but, even when I'm unemployed, my time is *far* too valuable to
>>>> spend on social media.
>>>> One more opinion before I step off my high-horse. Getting news
>>>> from Facebook or other social media is totally a losing proposition.
>>>> Advising people on how to fix it, or how to confirm what they read, is a
>>>> waste of time. The crucial part of getting news is to somehow find some
>>>> trustworthy sources, and start from there. I don't agree with the spin on
>>>> everything in the NY Times but I fully believe that, for reasons of the
>>>> personal integrity of the journalists and also to protect their bottom
>>>> line, they are never going to invent things that they print.
>>>> /rant off
>>>>
>>>> paul czyzewski
>>>>
>>>> * if there was a way for me to just see my friends' family photos on
>>>> facebook; ie, no news, and also no "vital" links passed on my well-meaning
>>>> friends, I'd probably start looking at it again. But I think that there is
>>>> (deliberately) no way to filter it that way.
>>>>
>>>> ** I once gave twitter what I thought was a fair test. There
>>>> were tsunami warnings in Hawaii so I used some filter -- I don't know if
>>>> it's still exists or not -- to watch a stream of tweets about that,
>>>> real-time. Instead of the hoped-for "I see the wave entering the harbor;
>>>> small boats are being overturned," I saw tweets on the order of "The news
>>>> reported that, 30 minutes ago, the waves were twenty miles away."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:46 PM Jeff Johnson via cpsr-activists list <
>>>> cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This article argues that “The Social Dilemma” movie is overblown:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200928/11452045401/social-dilemma-manipulates-you-with-misinformation-as-it-tries-to-warn-you-manipulation-misinformation.shtml
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Douglas Schuler
>> douglas at publicsphereproject.org
>> Twitter: @doug_schuler
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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>> Creating the World Citizen Parliament
>>
>> http://interactions.acm.org/archive/view/may-june-2013/creating-the-world-citizen-parliament
>>
>> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution
>> (project)
>> http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/lv
>> <http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/>
>>
>> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution
>> (book)
>> http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601
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