[liberationtech] Can Technology Support Democracy?

Wed May 13 23:16:57 CEST 2020

Dear Todd,

thanks for your comments in response to my exchange with Doug. I was not
suggesting a left-right divide in regards to data and how our governments
have addressed the pandemic. I see more of cluster of health policies
favouring herd immunity (Sweden, UK in February and may be the USA without
that Trump saying  it out loud) versus others who want to gain time till a
vaccine has been developed. 

in fact, I was trying to point out that we do not get sufficient statistics
to better understand who gets sick and who dies of Covid-19. We know that in
most of our countries, people in the age group 80 years old are at higher
risk to die of the disease even though there are counterfactuals of very old
persons who have recovered from Covid-19. 

The Guardian published an article  a couple of days ago showing which
professions are more at risk of being infected. I consider this aspect as
being not sufficiently mentioned in our discussions about "going back to the
economy". The risk of a second wave would more risky for the working class-
see: 

<https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/11/manual-workers-likelier-to-di
e-from-covid-19-than-professionals?CMP=share_btn_link>
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/11/manual-workers-likelier-to-die
-from-covid-19-than-professionals?CMP=share_btn_link

hence, our politicians should come up with some more balanced policies about
restarting the economy.

thanks for your thoughts, wish you safe and secure times over in the USA

Raymond

data- swss more detailed? important to know who are the 55%, what jobs,
social class, residential areas etc but sensitive , could lead to
recinforcemet of prejudices

From: Todd Davies [mailto:davies at stanford.edu] 
Sent: 05 May 2020 01:55
To: Raymond Saner <saner at diplomacydialogue.org>; 'Doug Schuler'
<douglas at publicsphereproject.org>
Cc: 'LT' <lt at lists.liberationtech.org>
Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Can Technology Support Democracy?

A couple of comments for Raymond and Doug on their messages below:

Raymond, I know you didn't say this exactly, but I wanted to share that I
don't see a consistent left-right split around the world (or even in Europe)
on the issue of how much to apply a lockdown. For example, one of the more
leftish governments in Europe is in Sweden (a coalition of Social Democrats
and Greens), which has put into practice policies and theories of the virus
that have become associated with the right in the U.S.  Dr. Johan Giesecke
who advised the Swedish government and has criticized the Conservative U.K.
Government's restrictive policies has put forward a view of the virus
reminiscent of Dr. John Ioannidis's views in the U.S., which have been
picked up by right-wing U.S. media such as Fox News, even though Ioannidis
himself credibly says he has no party political agenda. I think some on the
left have seen an analogy between the science around Covid-19 and climate
science, and may believe that a similar level of the data and scientific
consensus that exist for the climate crisis are also present for Covid-19.
But this is not the case at all -- there is much less consensus among
epidemiologists about the underlying models, and there is still much less of
the needed data to inform Covid-19 policy, than there are for global
warming. It also seems to me that a social justice perspective would find
plenty to criticize in policies that are throwing millions of people out of
their jobs, and disproportionately hurting the poor and people of color.

I am not going to get into a debate on this list about the views of Giesecke
and Ioannidis, and I don't want to make any claims about whether lockdowns
were the best policies to enact in March. Others can argue that if they
want. I just wished to point out that the supposed left-right alignment
being put forward on this issue is built on shaky foundations.

And to Doug... You can see data and graphs for your county (and any other in
the U.S. at  <https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/26/covid-19-tracker/>
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/26/covid-19-tracker/. 

 <https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/26/covid-19-tracker/> 

 <https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/26/covid-19-tracker/> The Covid-19
Tracker - STAT

As the virus that causes Covid-19 spreads worldwide, this dashboard offers a
snapshot of confirmed cases by geographic location. Click a country name to
get a more detailed geographic breakdown at the state, province, or county
level. Learn more.

 <http://www.statnews.com> www.statnews.com

Respectfully,

Todd Davies

Todd Davies  (he/him or they/them)

email:  <mailto:davies at stanford.edu> davies at stanford.edu

web:  <https://web.stanford.edu/~davies> web.stanford.edu/~davies

Current location: 

Stanford House

65 High Street

Oxford OX1 4EL UK

phone: +44 (0)1865 253105

Main office:

Symbolic Systems Program  
Stanford University           
Stanford, CA, 94305-2150 USA

phone: +1 650 723 4091

office: 460-040C

  _____  

From: LT < <mailto:lt-bounces at lists.liberationtech.org>
lt-bounces at lists.liberationtech.org> on behalf of Raymond Saner <
<mailto:saner at diplomacydialogue.org> saner at diplomacydialogue.org>
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 1:41 PM
To: 'Doug Schuler' < <mailto:douglas at publicsphereproject.org>
douglas at publicsphereproject.org>
Cc: 'LT' < <mailto:lt at lists.liberationtech.org> lt at lists.liberationtech.org>
Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Can Technology Support Democracy? 

Dear Doug,

Thanks, over here in Europe- the transition has started towards post
Covid-19, if such a post will be possible without second wave of infections.
The parties to the right are pushing for re-opening of the economy, a bit
like in the USA. They hope to get back to ex ante coronavirus but nobody
knows if this will work out.

In regards to statistics, the information made available by the federal
government was always 2-3 days late and not sufficiently disaggregated which
made some of us wonder whether they did not want to reveal too much
information or whether it was just simply inadequate technology know-how.

People linked to the University of Zurich picked up the sluggish process and
put data on an ongoing basis out for everybody to read. The date is now
quite disaggregated but some data analysis is not possible because the
cantons-states do not collect sufficient data.

Still, check it out, corona-data.ch 

Best regards
Raymond

From: Doug Schuler [ <mailto:douglas at publicsphereproject.org>
mailto:douglas at publicsphereproject.org] 
Sent: 04 May 2020 20:48
To: Raymond Saner < <mailto:saner at diplomacydialogue.org>
saner at diplomacydialogue.org>
Cc: LT < <mailto:lt at lists.liberationtech.org> lt at lists.liberationtech.org>
Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Can Technology Support Democracy?

Thanks Raymond for the feedback on my article. I need to check out your
papers but I agree that citizen engagement is key to the success of
democracy - and to the SDG work. One of the big problems I feel is building
and maintaining the networks that are working towards these goals. One of
the important aspects of monitoring I suspect is having the visibility. We
see that to some degree with the flattening of the curve idea but in spite
of all the all the data scientists in the world I'm still not seeing useful
curves being generated daily that represent smaller locations. I live in
King County, Washington (where Seattle) is and I don't see the daily curve
for the county or city. We can't see the progress. Maybe like a baseball
team that didn't know its standing in the league.

I looked at some of the issues with my article in City Atlas. I focused on
patterns and pattern languages to help coordinate people's actions in
relation to the Green New Deal. 

http://newyork.thecityatlas.org/lifestyle/the-green-new-deal-is-the-real-dea
l/

I'm currently working with some colleagues on a paper that focuses on
patterns and pattern languages to address wicked problems. It also would
depend on tech support. 

Interested in what others on the list have to say but I do hope that we can
keep talking about this. I'm working with several individuals and groups who
are trying to go to the next level - and part of that is thinking about what
the heck that might mean.

Thanks Raymond!

- Doug

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 10:30 AM Raymond Saner <saner at diplomacydialogue.org
<mailto:saner at diplomacydialogue.org> > wrote:

Dear Doug,

thanks for drawing our attention to your article "Can Technology support
Democracy", a very timely article, well arguments and well sourced. 

we are involved in the SDG implementation (
<http://www.csend.org/publications/agenda-2030>
http://www.csend.org/publications/agenda-2030) and technology plays a very
important part in the implementation process or better stated- could play an
important part if designed well. 

for instance, the monitoring process could be much more developed. The SDGs
have a 4 year cycle of reviews but the ongoing monitoring often is either
"forgotten" or turned into a mini-evaluation with heavy use of IT data, data
experts and complex data analytics which are not easily understood by the
citizens.

our article describes some of the difficulties of citizen based monitoring
of the SDGs:
<http://www.csend.org/publications/agenda-2030/497-monitoring-the-sdgs-digit
al-and-social-technologies-to-ensure-citizen-participation-inclusiveness-and
-transparency>
http://www.csend.org/publications/agenda-2030/497-monitoring-the-sdgs-digita
l-and-social-technologies-to-ensure-citizen-participation-inclusiveness-and-
transparency

how could the SDG monitoring process be based on the SDG principles of
inclusiveness, participation and transparency? 

looking forward to your thoughts

best regards

Raymond 

From: LT [mailto: <mailto:lt-bounces at lists.liberationtech.org>
lt-bounces at lists.liberationtech.org] On Behalf Of Doug Schuler
Sent: 02 May 2020 19:33
To: LT < <mailto:lt at lists.liberationtech.org> lt at lists.liberationtech.org>
Subject: [liberationtech] Can Technology Support Democracy?

Just found this in my drafts folder... Maybe I sent this out earlier and
maybe it's less relevant given the pandemic but here it is ... Thanks!

------

I thought I'd share my new article. It came out yesterday in Volume 1, issue
1 of the journal 
Digital Government: Research and Practice (DGOV).  Just so you could get the
gist I included the abstract below. Here's the url just in case...
https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/3352462

Thanks!!!

Can Technology Support Democracy?

The utopian optimism about democracy and the internet has given way to
disillusionment. At the same time, given the complexity of today's wicked
problems, the need for democracy is critical. Unfortunately democracy is
under attack around the world, and there are ominous signs of its retreat.
How does democracy fare when digital technology is added to the picture?
Weaving technology and democracy together is risky, and technologists who
begin any digital project with the conviction that technology can and will
solve "problems" of democracy are likely to be disappointed. Technology can
be a boon to democracy if it is informed technology. The goal in writing
this essay was to encourage people to help develop and cultivate a rich
democratic sphere. Democracy has great potential that it rarely achieves. It
is radical, critical, complex, and fragile. It takes different forms in
different contexts. These forms are complex and the solutionism promoted by
the computer industry and others is not appropriate in the case of
democracies. The primary aim of technology in the service of democracy is
not merely to make it easier or more convenient but to improve society's
civic intelligence, its ability to address the problems it faces effectively
and equitably.

-- 

Douglas Schuler

 <mailto:douglas at publicsphereproject.org> douglas at publicsphereproject.org

Twitter: @doug_schuler

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 <mailto:douglas at publicsphereproject.org> douglas at publicsphereproject.org

Twitter: @doug_schuler

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--

Public Sphere Project

      <http://www.publicsphereproject.org/>
http://www.publicsphereproject.org/

Mailing list ~ Collective Intelligence for the Common Good

       <http://lists.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/ci>
http://lists.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/ci4cg-announce

Creating the World Citizen Parliament

<http://interactions.acm.org/archive/view/may-june-2013/creating-the-world-c
itizen-parliament>
http://interactions.acm.org/archive/view/may-june-2013/creating-the-world-ci
tizen-parliament

Liberating Voices!  A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution
(project) 

      <http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/>
http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/lv

Liberating Voices!  A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (book)

  <http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601>
http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601

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