[liberationtech] Interesting things

Fri Jan 31 07:43:52 CET 2020

A mob harassed you?  Or do you mean ads?

My problem with these general, ambiguous references is that not being specific, we can’t really tell if they can be remedied.  Many people agree with you, but it’s a useless agreement since it’s vague.  The only remedy to vague things are sweeping remedies (like laws about privacy) which are way beyond our political ability, probably even impossible in the current political paradigm where the entities wanting to invade our privacy are far more organized and politically powerful than citizens.

> > What I intend is that democratically elected governments should be representative of the people, represent and protect the citizen's interests,but the are not.  

Yes, modern times have proven that free and somewhat fair elections are not sufficient for creating a stable, functioning democracy.  The wealthy and powerful are more adept at organizing themselves, adapting to, and leveraging the political system than individual citizens.  When citizens organize into large enough groups (like parties), these groups are then infiltrated and subverted, while the group leadership has neither the bandwidth, brains or bucks to effectively resist.

I suggest giving up.

What’s needed is a new political structure that allows citizens to organize effectively, but not into groups.
I’ve designed it, see http://bit.ly/peoplecount-guide <http://bit.ly/peoplecount-guide>, but it’s a bit beyond my ability to singlehandedly create and I have no team.

It’s not a very big undertaking.  What it does is simply create a new foundation, a new political communication system in which real accountability occurs naturally and is rewarded.  Most people don’t even have a definition of accountability, we think it’s an "ability" but it’s not.  It’s a relationship with defined roles carried out through communication.  See:  http://j.mp/peoplecount-how <http://j.mp/peoplecount-how>

Once you understand accountability, it’s pretty easy to see that a simple system could deliver the basics:  http://bit.ly/pc-nuts-bolts <http://bit.ly/pc-nuts-bolts>

Of course, that’s the absolute minimum MVP (minimum viable product.)  It raises a whole new set of questions, but there are good answers.  It becomes a new paradigm and then much more is possible.  There’s even a theoretical basis for it based on complex adaptive systems, but that’s immaterial at this point (perhaps someone will make a TED talk someday…)

But please give up hope.  Hope seems to be mainly an excuse to avoid both the outside-the-box thinking that’s needed as well as to avoid the work...
-r

> On Jan 30, 2020, at 3:53 PM, Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Rand
> Yes,  i was defnitely generalizing -  the post I responded to was also kind in that tone
> 
> What I intended is not like  the example you gave in California , What I intend is
> that democratically elected governments should be representative of the people, represent  and protect the citizen's interests,but the are not.  
> I have come to this realization in recent years only, that what is on paper (constitution, legal statutes etc) does not correspond to truth at all. 
> For examples I have no objections if some government want to know my address or ID, because I have nothing to hide. But when the government instigates the mob
> to  harras me  so that I then have no other choice than to seek the help of the government (or the law, or a legal foundation, or the cops) to defend myself, is perverse and surely must be illegal? It is also hard to prove in court, that the gangsters who have been robbing me were informed about 'my every move; by
> the same regime to whom I gave my whereabouts for legal reason.
> 
> Governments obtain information 'legally'then give it to gangsters to get dirty business done. so that they can then show that they can intervene and rectify the problem. I would not have believed it possible, but I worked on it.  
> People intercept 'my every move to counter it' is not legal.  
> But their excuse for surveillance is that they want to protect the citizen. In the reality
> they want to mob the citizen. That is the absurd reality, and not legitimate way government  agencies should operate.
> 
> Regarding the cryptoanarchy, I have definitely seen a lot of cryptoanarchists
> being puppets to the secret state. I cant make names because they would definitely be at my door. since they know my every move. :-)
> By masses I intended the scores of people who are scouted by movements by leveraging some utopic ideals and then manipulated to commit gangster acts
> under the protection of the deviated 'democratic institution'
> 
> Sorry this is a bit of a vague rant, I just wanted to comment on the fact that there is nothing wrong in being open about one's whereabouts. the problem is how someone perverse who have access to it use it for a purpose different and opposite from the purpose the data is shared.  And that cryptoanarchy maybe not be anarchy after all
> 
> P
> 
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 1:06 AM Rand Strauss <Rand at peoplecount.org <mailto:Rand at peoplecount.org>> wrote:
>> 1. democratically elected governments, and law enforcement agencies, as legitimate entiteis, should  protect citizens freedoms
>> and should protect them from surveillance. but they don’t.
> 
> So you say.  But many people haven’t said so yet, through their governments.  Yes, some call for this, but not enough to make new laws in some countries.  
> 
>> instead, government and law enforcement agencies operate outside the law, and work against legitimacy itself.
> 
> This is a generalization and as such, inaccurate.  Governments here in California sell information to help their budgets.  It’s distasteful, but not yet against the law. 
> 
>> 2.  cryptoanarchy is a device to fool the younger generations and enrol them into crypto culture then manipulate them. I am afraid secret states and deviated governments are behind, and part of, the cryptomovement, that s another way to steer the masses. together with disinformation. manipulation of facts and other tacticts
> 
> This is interesting, but just an assertion, and another generalization. How are some being manipulated? And what are the stats- how many of the "masses" are being enrolled in the cryptomovement?  It sounds like you’re saying using Brave means one is being manipulated.  How so?
> 
> -r
> 
>> Now burn me :-)
>> 
>> PDM
>> 
>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:56 AM grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com <mailto:grarpamp at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > Be Brave, your browser won't explode.
>> 
>> > Am also curious as to why Cloudflare hates Tor.
>> 
>> Search CF CIA op, haters need you and the masses on clearnet so
>> they can surveil, predict, see, and counter your every move in realtime,
>> not least of which being your political activism vote. Better to wake up,
>> rise, build and route around, thus dispense with them all forevermore.
>> 
>> Governments hate cryptoanarchy [tor etc], not because it's a threat
>> to you, but because it's a threat to them. To them, blocking tor,
>> crypto[currency], comms tech, free speech, etc is just a survival
>> self-defense move against the evolution of world of now connected
>> peoples waking they don't need them anymore to get good things done.
>> 
>> Why beg them to pocket half of what they steal from you for roads, why advocate
>> they digital spy store sell your gps travels odometer rfid facial
>> register pay scheme...
>> when you can now already today anon smash that cryptocoin donate
>> crowdfund button on the QR code posted every kilometer by the local
>> communities and or private maintainers. It's that simple, that freedom.
>> 
>> Wake up. Build Braver. Educate not to create/follow old fake
>> authority, not to "vote"
>> yourselves politik whim force demand over free peoples who have done nothing,
>> as that struct will always be abused... but on personal
>> responsibility, non-agression,
>> freedom respecting interactions importance coming and building together,
>> charity, and more.
>> 
>> Liberating beyond the limits of continually repeating the fail of
>> legacy structures,
>> into actual freedom, requires Bravery, indeed. You have it, find it
>> within, and use it.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> -- 
>> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major commercial search engine. Violations of list guidelines will get you moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt <https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt>. Unsubscribe, change to digest mode, or change password by emailing lt-owner at lists.liberationtech.org <mailto:lt-owner at lists.liberationtech.org>.
> 

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