[liberationtech] Democracy (was: Re: Would you like to put the list under permanent moderation?

[Rand Strauss]

Being able to vote for powerless representatives is not enough to be a real democracy.

If you want, I’ll amend my statement:

> We don’t have a effective democracy.  

Democracy’s purpose is to give political power to the people, and just to the people.  America's doesn’t work.  Without real mechanisms that deliver accountability, voters don’t have real power.

The power to elect people gives just a small bit of power.  In our system of parties, primary elections, expensive campaigns and plurality voting, the lack of much competition further reduces this bit of power almost negligible.  Similarly, Congressional dysfunction stops the little bit of power our representatives could wield on our behalf if they were so inclined. Still, accountability could alleviate these problems as well.

> The major conceptual challenge is defining operationally what is meant by “representative.” 

> Other terms, such as "accountability,” face the same problem, with no theoretically rigorous answer in sight

I suspect we can build an operational definition of representative.
I know one can assemble an operational definition of accountability.

> The only solution...is to empirically determine the degree to which governmental decisions reflect the desires of the population

No, it’s not the only solution.

Plus, it is not reliable. In a true democracy, not only are representatives accountable to voters, but voters are responsible for holding representatives accountable.  The desires of responsible voters differ greatly from the surveyed desires of randomly selected, surprised, only-responsible-for-voting voters. Such voters are often poorly informed since they lack rewards for being informed about political issues. In fact, being informed merely makes one more frustrated- many find it to be a negative reward.

An operational definition of accountability

We have at least two common examples of accountability.  In a business, a worker is accountable to his/her boss.  In a school,  a student is accountable to each teacher.  From these, a rigorous operational definition can be created.

One of the reasons we don’t know what "accountability" means is that we think it’s some sort of "ability."  It’s not.  It’s a relationship.  A circular definition might be:  Accountability is a relationship where Worker is accountable to Boss and Boss holds Worker accountable.  So we have 2 parties in a relationship.

What’s a relationship?  A relationship is where two people have roles with respect to each other and communicate about them.  We want to have this being-accountable/holding-accountable relationship between voters and politicians, we currently can’t because we lack the communication mechanisms.  

To spell it out, accountability is <https://blog.peoplecount.org/series/real-accountability/>:
"the boss guiding the worker and having expectations
the worker answering the boss’ questions regularly
the boss judging the worker
the boss being able to fire the worker"
Further on in the series, the rest of the relationship is fleshed out.
-r


> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020, 11:21 AM David Stodolsky <dss at socialinformatics.org <mailto:dss at socialinformatics.org>> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 8 Jan 2020, at 04:37, Rand Strauss <Rand at PeopleCount.org <mailto:Rand at PeopleCount.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> We don’t have a democracy.  Humanity has never had a true representative democracy of any large number of people.
> 
> 
> It is wise to apply technically correct terms, when dealing with disputed concepts. Until the formation of the USA, “democracy” meant “Athens” - a form of governance in which people vote directly on the issues. My “eDemocracy review” provides a summary:
> 
> https://groups.io/g/yellowvests/wiki/eDemocracy-and-Athenian-democracy <https://groups.io/g/yellowvests/wiki/eDemocracy-and-Athenian-democracy>
> 
> The current usage of “democracy” can be considered one of the greatest propaganda victories in history. When Benjamin Franklin was asked the result of the constitutional convention he said, “A republic, if you can keep it.” This is a technically correct characterization. A governance system in which people select others to decide issues is a republic. 
> 
> So, a "representative democracy” is a republican form of government. The major conceptual challenge is defining operationally what is meant by “representative.” Other terms, such as "accountability,” face the same problem, with no theoretically rigorous answer in sight. The only solution to this quandary is to empirically determine the degree to which governmental decisions reflect the desires of the population. A recent study suggest that citizens have no such influence in the USA:
> 
> Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.
> 
> https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf <https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf>
> 
> 
> dss
> 
> 
> 
> David Stodolsky, PhD                   Institute for Social Informatics
> Tornskadestien 2, st. th., DK-2400 Copenhagen NV, Denmark
> dss at socialinformatics.org <mailto:dss at socialinformatics.org>          Tel./Signal: +45 3095 4070
> 
> -- 
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