[liberationtech] LT Digest, Vol 11, Issue 10
Catherine Fitzpatrick
catfitz at verizon.net
Sun Jan 5 03:17:49 CET 2020
Yosym,
I got a 404 on that link to the poll you gave and it's not Jan. 10 yet.
But I vote against moderation because I think it's time-consuming, unnecessary, irrelevant, and I'm a big girl. I disagree with most of what's on this list, but if I don't want to read it, I delete it rather than ask for a net-nanny.
The exceptions would be incitement of imminent violence, in line with the Supreme Court decisions, and incitement of racism, which while "protected speech" is not becoming of a university mailing list.
bo0od evidently has a lot of extremist views but calling in a general way for bad things to happen to former Google employees is not "incitement of imminent violence". I was an early critic of Google when everyone else thought they were cool, and for different reasons (Sergei Brin's idea of the Great Society is the Soviet Knowledge Society), and now I use them and don't care a huge amount except to point out that their "human rights protesters" never amount to more than a few hundred or thousand, and they should admit, like this latest guy does by running for election in Maine, that their real goal is to come to power and arrange things as they like. And I'm not for letting them do that because it is extreme, illiberal, and undemocratic.
I personally think that all talk of Internet companies incorporating human rights principles is just NGO insanity, of the sort that drove that coalition of tech companies that Human Rights Watch and others used to promote, with great pompousness, and which accomplished exactly nothing (where is it now?). That is, sure, if they want to some basics, like not doing business with countries where both their own citizens or foreigners are killed or disappeared, or where there is child labour or exploitation, or some red line like that, fine, but it's hard to make these policies and hard to monitor them, as you can see from things like the Soros-funded Cotton Campaign. That campaign intimidated some companies to sign pledges that they couldn't really check, and others not to sign it because their lawyers warned them they couldn't really check (because of second-party sales) and also caved to the Obama Administration's soft-balling Uzbekistan and not moving them to third-tier (bad) status re: child labour (they liked Obama more than they disliked Karimov).
Google is an ad agency that needs to keep expanding its markets, almost like a pyramid scheme, or it fails. Hence China, or Russia (which nobody complains about, but Google has quietly made a deal there evidently as its servers have not be expelled from Russian soil under a new law, and it hasn't even gotten the US $17 fine (yes, that's all) that Twitter got for violating their oppressive law.
So Google's decisions around China or any other country with massive human rights violations are business decisions, and if you dislike them, admit that your real target is capitalism and Western civilization, not some vague notion of "human rights" that you are entirely inconsistent with, given your left-wing ideology. Human rights treaties apply to states who sign the treaties, not to non-state actors like corporations. Yes, there are UN-inspired business principles and such but they aren't really binding. Yes, they're "nice to have". But here's the problem with the UN: it has never endorsed capitalism and said it's ok to make a profit, which is the necessary ideological step you need before making rules about businesses. And it hasn't done that due to early Soviet domination and later ideological domination by the Soviet Union's pupils, whether Cuba or even Iran or India. BTW this problem extends to our own country where people on the left complain about Hillary meeting with Wall Street or Pete B. fund-raising in the wine cave, and then we get Trump -- and will likely get him again, more's the pity.
So...Then the task becomes to make a non-profit Google competitor, or a collectivist anarchist Google competitor, or whatever you like. Good luck. Remember when Jason Calicanus tried to sort of make something like that? It was a big flop.
While I'm here, I'll note that I can't always answer responses to my comments due to work or health reasons and I can't trawl through old copies of this newsletter to find them, so let me point out just three responses to past discussion:
o To Shava and others: in every age, and in every country, and in every culture, there has been a taboo against suicide, strong or weak. That's the human paradigm. Yet you want to make some Brave New World where this is ok, if you think you shouldn't serve a six-month prison sentence and admit what you did was theft, or it's ok, if you are viewed as an Internet warrior falling on your sword, or it's ok if you are severely mentally or physically ill. But that goes against most of the cultures of the world, and you don't even have to pick Western culture if you hate it.
o To those who think SIPA and PIPA and all the rest are "wrong", again, let me point out that if you can't protect copyright, you can't protect privacy and security and a lot else. They really are intimately connected. That flies against the Internet ideology as conceived by John Perry Barlow and Mitch Kapor (after they first made their own stashes, of course) etc. but think about it more deeply. And because THAT effort to regulate the Internet occurred, we went on to suffer a lot more, including Russian interference with the elections. The anti-trafficking legislation that DID pass did not harm the Internet in all the fake ways claimed. So there is that. More regulation is coming, and it will be in spite of you all, thank God.
o Indeed, Tim Berners-Lee's principles (see, everyone has forgotten them now) were indeed inspired by Access Now and I don't understand why I'm told I am "wrong" about this when in fact they list them in their list of contributors on their web page. If you followed their conferences over the years, you would see this. If there are others, that's fine, but they are of a piece.
Yasym asks, "but how do you do these things". The answer is "through Congress" -- which you don't like, or think is stupid, I guess except when it is Zoe Lofgren of California who opposed SIPA, funded by Google, and maybe not even her anymore.
regards,
Catherine A. Fitzpatrick
On Saturday, January 4, 2020, 07:44:20 PM EST, lt-request at lists.liberationtech.org <lt-request at lists.liberationtech.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: I Was Google’s Head of International Relations.
Here’s Why I Left. (bo0od)
2. Would you like to put the list under permanent moderation?
(Yosem Companys)
3. Re: I Was Google’s Head of International Relations.
Here’s Why I Left. (Tim Phillips)
4. Fwd: DHS Releases NTAS Bulletin (Eric Tykwinski)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 16:56:31 +0000
From: bo0od <bo0od at riseup.net>
To: lt at lists.liberationtech.org
Subject: Re: [liberationtech] I Was Google’s Head of International
Relations. Here’s Why I Left.
Message-ID: <6cc0150c-8861-6083-722d-956970c9d0dd at riseup.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
doesnt matter what all been said here, just because you worked at google
= you deserve every bit of what happened, wish for you all the worst
things in you life.
also Medium is a shitty media.
congrats you suck.
Yosem Companys:
> My solution was to advocate for the adoption of a company-wide, formal
> Human Rights Program that would publicly commit Google to adhere to human
> rights principles found in the UN Declaration of Human Rights, provide a
> mechanism for product and engineering teams to seek internal review of
> product design elements, and formalize the use of Human Rights Impact
> Assessments for all major product launches and market entries.
>
> But each time I recommended a Human Rights Program, senior executives came
> up with an excuse to say no. At first, they said human rights issues were
> better handled within the product teams, rather than starting a separate
> program. But the product teams weren’t trained to address human rights as
> part of their work. When I went back to senior executives to again argue
> for a program, they then claimed to be worried about increasing the
> company’s legal liability. We provided the opinion of outside experts who
> re-confirmed that these fears were unfounded. At this point, a colleague
> was suddenly re-assigned to lead the policy team discussions for Dragonfly.
> As someone who had consistently advocated for a human rights-based
> approach, I was being sidelined from the on-going conversations on whether
> to launch Dragonfly. I then realized that the company had never intended to
> incorporate human rights principles into its business and product
> decisions. Just when Google needed to double down on a commitment to human
> rights, it decided to instead chase bigger profits and an even higher stock
> price.
>
> It was no different in the workplace culture. Senior colleagues bullied and
> screamed at young women, causing them to cry at their desks. At an
> all-hands meeting, my boss said, “Now you Asians come to the microphone
> too. I know you don’t like to ask questions.” At a different all-hands
> meeting, the entire policy team was separated into various rooms and told
> to participate in a “diversity exercise” that placed me in a group labeled
> “homos” while participants shouted out stereotypes such as “effeminate” and
> “promiscuous.” Colleagues of color were forced to join groups called
> “Asians” and “Brown people” in other rooms nearby.
>
> In each of these cases, I brought these issues to HR and senior executives
> and was assured the problems would be handled. Yet in each case, there was
> no follow up to address the concerns — until the day I was accidentally
> copied on an email from a senior HR director. In the email, the HR director
> told a colleague that I seemed to raise concerns like these a lot, and
> instructed her to “do some digging” on me instead.
>
> https://medium.com/@rossformaine/i-was-googles-head-of-international-relations-here-s-why-i-left-49313d23065
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 10:58:19 -0800
From: Yosem Companys <ycompanys at gmail.com>
To: LT <lt at lists.liberationtech.org>
Subject: [liberationtech] Would you like to put the list under
permanent moderation?
Message-ID:
<CANhci9HyM4ZX=D+_nKRbyKGOXviP-W7aQ=KUbOindBaqWw85tg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hey All,
As you might recall, I am one of the moderators of the Liberationtech list.
I recommend that we switch the list from emergency to permanent moderation
to preempt posts that violate list guidelines (see below).
Please cast your vote at https://doodle.com/poll/i5mhkd4qtanwezt8. Voting
closes on Friday, January 10, 2020.
Thanks,
Yosem
*****
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 13:40:04 -0800
From: Tim Phillips <tim.p.phillips at gmail.com>
To: bo0od <bo0od at riseup.net>
Cc: LT <lt at lists.liberationtech.org>
Subject: Re: [liberationtech] I Was Google’s Head of International
Relations. Here’s Why I Left.
Message-ID:
<CAH7McmH2=tkWBTGRKRbbG6tPf3WWuiVr6vW3aNk+wDoXGwXfYg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
C'mon, that's a quote from the article. YC is just sharing with you
relevant news about tech, freedom, and the erosion of it.
On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 8:57 AM bo0od <bo0od at riseup.net> wrote:
> doesnt matter what all been said here, just because you worked at google
> = you deserve every bit of what happened, wish for you all the worst
> things in you life.
>
> also Medium is a shitty media.
>
> congrats you suck.
>
> Yosem Companys:
> > My solution was to advocate for the adoption of a company-wide, formal
> > Human Rights Program that would publicly commit Google to adhere to human
> > rights principles found in the UN Declaration of Human Rights, provide a
> > mechanism for product and engineering teams to seek internal review of
> > product design elements, and formalize the use of Human Rights Impact
> > Assessments for all major product launches and market entries.
> >
> > But each time I recommended a Human Rights Program, senior executives
> came
> > up with an excuse to say no. At first, they said human rights issues were
> > better handled within the product teams, rather than starting a separate
> > program. But the product teams weren’t trained to address human rights as
> > part of their work. When I went back to senior executives to again argue
> > for a program, they then claimed to be worried about increasing the
> > company’s legal liability. We provided the opinion of outside experts who
> > re-confirmed that these fears were unfounded. At this point, a colleague
> > was suddenly re-assigned to lead the policy team discussions for
> Dragonfly.
> > As someone who had consistently advocated for a human rights-based
> > approach, I was being sidelined from the on-going conversations on
> whether
> > to launch Dragonfly. I then realized that the company had never intended
> to
> > incorporate human rights principles into its business and product
> > decisions. Just when Google needed to double down on a commitment to
> human
> > rights, it decided to instead chase bigger profits and an even higher
> stock
> > price.
> >
> > It was no different in the workplace culture. Senior colleagues bullied
> and
> > screamed at young women, causing them to cry at their desks. At an
> > all-hands meeting, my boss said, “Now you Asians come to the microphone
> > too. I know you don’t like to ask questions.” At a different all-hands
> > meeting, the entire policy team was separated into various rooms and told
> > to participate in a “diversity exercise” that placed me in a group
> labeled
> > “homos” while participants shouted out stereotypes such as “effeminate”
> and
> > “promiscuous.” Colleagues of color were forced to join groups called
> > “Asians” and “Brown people” in other rooms nearby.
> >
> > In each of these cases, I brought these issues to HR and senior
> executives
> > and was assured the problems would be handled. Yet in each case, there
> was
> > no follow up to address the concerns — until the day I was accidentally
> > copied on an email from a senior HR director. In the email, the HR
> director
> > told a colleague that I seemed to raise concerns like these a lot, and
> > instructed her to “do some digging” on me instead.
> >
> >
> https://medium.com/@rossformaine/i-was-googles-head-of-international-relations-here-s-why-i-left-49313d23065
> >
> >
>
> --
> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major
> commercial search engine. Violations of list guidelines will get you
> moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt. Unsubscribe,
> change to digest mode, or change password by emailing
> lt-owner at lists.liberationtech.org.
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 18:58:57 -0500
From: Eric Tykwinski <eric-list at truenet.com>
To: LT <lt at lists.liberationtech.org>
Subject: [liberationtech] Fwd: DHS Releases NTAS Bulletin
Message-ID: <8816471E-7E7A-49D9-80C4-A7A782308086 at truenet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Expect more filtering from any ASN on RIPE with registration from Iran.
It’s mainly political, as the government can easily purchase services from outside, but may effect people inside Iran as well.
IMHO it’s probably cheaper and easier to purchase some AWS/Google/OVH/Hetzner, et al instances for attacks like everyone else, but that’s common sense.
Sincerely,
Eric Tykwinski
TrueNet, Inc.
P: 610-429-8300
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: "US-CERT" <US-CERT at public.govdelivery.com>
> Subject: DHS Releases NTAS Bulletin
> Date: January 4, 2020 at 6:14:20 PM EST
> To: eric at truenet.com
> Reply-To: US-CERT at public.govdelivery.com
>
> <>
> National Cyber Awareness System:
>
>
> DHS Releases NTAS Bulletin <https://www.us-cert.gov/ncas/current-activity/2020/01/04/dhs-releases-ntas-bulletin>
> 01/04/2020 05:51 PM EST
>
> Original release date: January 4, 2020
> Stakeholders,
>
> Today, Acting Secretary of Homeland Security Chad Wolf reissued the NTAS bulletin pertaining to the terror threat to the U.S. homeland. Upfront, you should know that: “At this time there is no specific, credible threat against the homeland.” You can read the new, entire bulletin at National Terrorism Advisory System Bulletin - January 4, 2020 <https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/ntas/alerts/20_0104_ntas_bulletin.pdf>.
>
> As the nation’s risk advisor, CISA is sharing this directly with you, our partners, to ensure you have the latest information from the Department of Homeland Security. As appropriate, we will provide protective measures when and if our understanding of the risk changes. However, do not wait for us to have the best or only idea – collective defense works best when we share what works, collectively and collaboratively.
>
> Stay vigilant, stay connected, and help us – if you See Something, Say Something. For useful tips, resources and information about our offerings, and how to reach us and report information, related to the Bulletin, please visit CISA.gov <https://www.cisa.gov/>.
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency
>
>
> This product is provided subject to this Notification <https://www.us-cert.gov/privacy/notification> and this Privacy & Use <https://www.dhs.gov/privacy-policy> policy.
>
> OTHER RESOURCES:
> About Us <https://www.us-cert.gov/ccubedvp> | Getting Started <https://www.us-cert.gov/ccubedvp> | Cybersecurity Framework <https://www.us-cert.gov/ccubedvp/cybersecurity-framework> | Assessments <https://www.us-cert.gov/ccubedvp/assessments> | Events and Media <https://www.us-cert.gov/ccubedvp/press> | Privacy <http://www.us-cert.gov/privacy>
> STAY CONNECTED:
> <http://public.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSUSCERT/subscriber/new>
> SUBSCRIBER SERVICES:
> Manage Preferences <http://public.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSUSCERT/subscribers/new?preferences=true> | Unsubscribe <https://public.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSUSCERT/subscriber/one_click_unsubscribe?verification=5.00f0bb4727831a32f8109fe5b9ce8065&destination=eric%40truenet.com> | Help <https://subscriberhelp.govdelivery.com/>
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