[liberationtech] Fwd: Liberation Tech would like a word.

[Lorelei Kelly]

hi Michael, thanks for the comment.
Do you know about the Council for Technology and Social Cohesion?  It is a
new network--launched last year in SFO--  and one of the central
conversations is about the use of deliberative technologies in the
governing process...  I think almost everyone has the goal in mind to
surface and respond to the most unheard or marginalized voices.

LK

On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 10:28 PM Michael H. Goldhaber <michael at goldhaber.org>
wrote:

> I just want to congratulate the re-founders of LT.
>
> Two points: 1. In the late ‘60’s I was among those who led delegations to
> visit Congressional offices and campaign for peace in Vietnam.  We did have
> impact.  I’m not quite sure why that simple process can’t t work for
> important issues now.
>
> 2. I’m writing a book on the Internet and the human future. For all their
> many flaws, social media allow huge numbers of people worldwide to seek
> attention from anywhere at little cost. The problem is in paying them due
> attention. It’s fundamentally a social problem: learning or figuring out
> how to give some of our attention to the weakest voices, and then
> committing to doing so. That will also involve teaching how.
>
> Comments?
>
>
>
> Michael Goldhaber via iPhone, so please ecuse misteaks.
>
> On Apr 22, 2024, at 8:04 PM, Daylon Soh <daylon at curiouscore.com> wrote:
>
> 
> Hi everyone,
>
> I joined the list out of sheer curiosity after watching Mr. Robot. Am an
> ex-journalist and communications manager turned education entrepreneur.
>
> We run a business training digital skills based in Singapore and Malaysia.
>
> Happy to connect via https://www.linkedin.com/in/daylonsoh/
>
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 4:43 AM Kate Krauss <katiephr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Lorelei,
>>
>> Wow--I have never thought about the right to petition or the idea that
>> Facebook is an ad-based grievance processing platform.  I am fascinated by
>> these civic tech tools, especially pol.is.
>>
>> Pol.is basically runs huge town meetings and helps people build consensus
>> over political divides. The US desperately needs to try these tools, and
>> it's great to hear that you are working on this for US Congress.
>>
>> Taiwan uses them; I'm hoping to drag Audrey Tang, the brilliant digital
>> minister of Taiwan who is an open-source hacker, onto this list. I
>> wrote the piece below about civic tech in Taiwan and Estonia a few years
>> ago. The text might be a little rosy (Audrey should come on the list and
>> say if it is!) but it talks about some civic tech tools that people might
>> not be familiar with. And it is long; feel free to skip it.
>>
>> -Kate Krauss
>>
>> *Tl;dr: Long opinion piece walks through civic tech as enacted in two
>> very clever countries*
>>
>> Taiwan withstands intense hacking and disinformation from the Chinese
>> government (right next door), yet it has managed to build an ecosystem of
>> inventive and useful tools that outmaneuver its more powerful neighbor.
>>
>>
>> To counter disinformation, Taiwanese volunteers created CoFacts
>> <https://cofacts.g0v.tw/> (Collaborative Facts), a chatbot that allows
>> people to ask questions about internet rumors without leaving their
>> messaging app. Users instantly receive an even-handed analysis of what is
>> true and false about the rumor, researched by vetted fact checkers similar
>> to Wikipedia editors.
>>
>>
>> Pol.is <https://pol.is/home> is an online platform that builds
>> understanding between people with opposing views.* Developed in Seattle
>> [!]* but fine-tuned for Taiwan, the platform allows people to present
>> their own solutions to political problems, adding to and editing them to
>> improve the ideas and find consensus. (Pol.is also had a successful
>> trial run in Bowling Green, Kentucky town meetings.)
>>
>>
>> A Taiwanese tool called “Government Budget Maps” compares federal budget
>> items to the price of lunch boxes, bubble tea, or space travel so that
>> people can wrap their minds around the cost. Citizens are then invited to
>> review and rate each item.
>>
>>
>> These ideas, and many others, have emerged from Taiwan’s large and
>> vibrant culture of civic hacking--a movement of volunteers, known as G0V
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G0v>, who work together to develop and
>> adapt open source tools that advance democracy and keep the government
>> accountable.  G0V is building out *nonprofit* civic space.  People can
>> voice their opinions, but no one is trying to keep them on a platform at
>> any cost, enrage them with false information, or introduce them to Nazis.
>>
>>
>> Other countries are also innovating to evade trouble online. Estonia, the
>> tiny democracy wedged between Russia and the Baltic Sea, has fought back
>> <https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2020/0204/Cybersecurity-2020-What-Estonia-knows-about-thwarting-Russians>
>> against Russia's hacking of its bank, government agencies, press, and power
>> grid. Advocates formed the CyberDefense League, enlisting hundreds of
>> volunteers--teachers, lawyers, software developers, even priests--to
>> protect the country from Russian cyberattacks. The CyberDefense League
>> organizes emergency drills--fake disasters--that teach the government and
>> citizenry how to prepare for, and counter, cyberattacks. They also teach
>> ordinary people to protect themselves online.
>>
>>
>> Estonia convinced NATO to run joint cyberdefense exercises, drawing
>> thousands of participants from more than two dozen countries. The country named
>> an ambassador-at-large
>> <https://govinsider.asia/cyber-futures/heli-tiirmaa-klaar-lessons-from-estonias-cyber-ambassador/>
>> for cybersecurity in 2018 (Taiwan has a digital minister). Every highschool
>> student in Estonia is required to enroll in a 35-hour class on media and
>> disinformation.
>>
>>
>> These strategies are working: When Russia hacked the Ukraine in a 2017
>> attack that spread to 64 other countries, Estonia was largely untouched.
>> [I wrote this in 2020 so not sure how Estonia is doing now -Kate]
>>
>>
>> In the US, open source civic hacking groups have made inroads in
>> streamlining US government processes [go, Lorelei!], but for-profit
>> companies still dominate the public square.
>>
>>
>> [My obvious point] Americans lack nonprofit, large-scale, online civic
>> space in which to discuss ideas, read articles, or watch videos without
>> being manipulated by profit-making algorithms. Instead, Facebook and others
>> send us content that provokes us, because research shows this keeps us
>> online. The longer we scroll, the more information we reveal that the
>> company can monetize for ads.  Facebook alone made $134 billion this way in
>> 2023.
>>
>>
>>
>> So what can the US do? We must move open source, nonprofit,
>> democracy-oriented software projects from the sidelines to the center of
>> American life and its public square. Congress, which already funds some
>> software development—and private foundations—can scale up funding and
>> promote projects that support everything from civic hackathons to
>> publicly-minded discussion platforms.
>>
>>
>> Facebook was never built to promote democracy. The company’s central
>> value and operating principle has always been growth--to get as big as
>> possible as fast as possible. Rather than speculating about Facebook’s
>> latest content moderation disaster [although actually we have to do that]
>> or analyze Mark Zuckerberg’s personality, let’s learn from other countries
>> that prioritize nonprofit, online civic life.
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 3:42 PM Lorelei Kelly <loreleikelly at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> hi, seeing if this thread goes through this time!
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: Lorelei Kelly <loreleikelly at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 3:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Liberation Tech would like a word.
>>> To: Kate Krauss <katiephr at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: liberationtech <liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu>
>>>
>>>
>>> deliberative technology could take many different forms pol.is  remesh,
>>> Zoom, Cortico Fora...online Town Hall Models, Citizen Assemblies, mini
>>> publics...
>>> what's interesting to me is how the Right to petition function of
>>> Congress (First Amendment duty) was basically offshored in the 1940s to the
>>> Executive Branch, thereby depriving Congress of its internal barometer of
>>> the American people-- it gave the President power at the expense of the
>>> legislature, and allowed the public grievance processing space to languish
>>> or be privatized (Facebook).   Now much access is purchased via
>>> lobbying...and advocacy... the rest of us are left to vote occasionally or
>>> protest or spiral into frustration and even apathy (very dangerous)...
>>> Grievance processing on top of an advertising platform is one of the major
>>> drivers of dysfunction IMHO. And that's not even mentioning the Putin ad
>>> buys.   It has been a disaster for democracy, but specifically for
>>> institutions like Congress whose communications standards were literally
>>> stuck in the Pony Express until 2020.  Here's an article that explains
>>> <https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/3985778-to-protect-democracy-from-machines-congress-must-modernize-our-constitutional-right-to-petition/>this
>>> big picture framing.
>>>
>>> We have to actually change alot of laborious and byzantine rules, even
>>> laws to allow Congress to function in the modern world.  It has many
>>> pockets of Civil War era technology like an 1860s document format.  Fixing
>>> this is an institutional long game--the Right Wing has been much more
>>> successful at eliminating public infrastructure and then
>>> occupying/capturing it, selling it off to friends and cronies or
>>> corporations (or flooding the zone with shit aka Bannon's plan)   The Left,
>>> as far as I can tell has no competitive institutional plan.  Centrists tend
>>> to not be supported by outside or adjacent orgs.
>>>
>>> our dysfunction re: tech and institutions is partly because the first
>>> generation of technologies on social media fit into campaigning needs, not
>>> governing, which requires slow moving, slow thinking and deliberation.
>>> Its one reason why governing looks like campaigning now. The whole
>>> incentive system is streamlined for it.  Citizens United in 2010 allowed
>>> unlimited dark money into the blood stream of democracy.  We have to change
>>> this incentive.  Americans need to fall in love with their governing
>>> institutions again. They are so beleaguered and brittle.   And this needs
>>> to be paid for by taxpayer dollars,facilitated by philanthropy,  not
>>> privatized.   Democracy is not a pro bono project or a side gig  that you
>>> think about while building a Mars rocket-- Scorn for institutions is one of
>>> the reasons I left Silicon Valley (where I was born!)  and have never
>>> looked back.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 1:10 PM Kate Krauss <katiephr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is so interesting. Thanks for sharing your fascinating insights
>>>> into the dynamics right now in US Congress. I can't believe we've found an
>>>> optimist! :)
>>>>
>>>> What sorts of things are you working on in this regard: "how to
>>>> integrate new forms of deliberative technology into the workflow of members
>>>> so there is a flow of authentic, productive, constituent driven feedback."
>>>> What sorts of deliberative technology?
>>>>
>>>> In modernizing, what kinds of unmodern things go wrong, and what
>>>> direction are you going in fixing them? Also very interested to hear about
>>>> AI and LLMs in the House (seems like a Saturday Night Live skit, but also,
>>>> the future!).
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again,
>>>>
>>>> -Kate
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 12:33 PM Lorelei Kelly <loreleikelly at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> hi, thanks for the note.
>>>>> I'm glad to see this list momentum effort!  We need it!
>>>>> I lead the modernizing Congress portfolio at Georgetown and I'm still
>>>>> working adjacent to the US Congress with the members and committees who are
>>>>> behind this effort-- The House has passed 202 reform and modernization
>>>>> recommendations. It is truly an unprecedented and historic push forward.
>>>>> I'm now helping implement the more difficult ones that include a social
>>>>> cohesion aspect. (i.e. how to we integrate new forms of deliberative
>>>>> technology into the workflow of members so there is a flow of authentic,
>>>>> productive, constituent driven feedback)  Also we have gotten ahead of the
>>>>> curve on AI and LLMs in the House at least. I'm proud of this old
>>>>> institution, even though its looking like a three ring circus in the news.
>>>>> I think the Mike Johnson success on Ukraine funding is a very interesting
>>>>> turning point for looking at democracy as transcendent critical
>>>>> infrastructure (backed up by pandemic measures to go remote and then J6
>>>>> reactions to look at the information systems on Capitol Hill as national
>>>>> security priorities)  We have begun to marginalize deviant behavior through
>>>>> the process and this is a good, emergent, systems way to make sense of it.
>>>>> Very interesting time for all of this.
>>>>> LK
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 12:19 PM Kate Krauss <katiephr at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We didn't move the list, or change its name (Liberation Tech) but we
>>>>>> did supply a link which works (after fixing a technical glitch) that you
>>>>>> can share with new people who might want to join.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kate
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 12:12 PM Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One
>>>>>> Victim & Survivor of Many <gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > > Hi, I’m confused, what about the list this email was sent to (
>>>>>>> lt at lists.liberationtech.org) ?
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > What does the “subscribe” link in this email have to do with
>>>>>>> that list?
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > Is it a different list? The same list? Is
>>>>>>> lt at lists.liberationtech.org still alive or being moved?
>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>> > > Very confused,
>>>>>>> > > Greg
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I'd like to relate that some communities have been both disrupted
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> > defended by influences skilled in social manipulation, and that one
>>>>>>> > attribute of that is changing the environment.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Changing an environment can help change, whether overt or covert,
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> > adopted more readily. It can separate both from harm and fear as
>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>> > as familiarity and community.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > It's pleasant that changing the list name could help people feel
>>>>>>> safer
>>>>>>> > from any trauma associated with the old list, and help anything
>>>>>>> > targeting the old list have a little trouble finding the new
>>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I hope that everybody who was affiliated with the old list
>>>>>>> succeeds in
>>>>>>> > finding the new one, but I know there will be people who don't.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Some communities often have to move in order to survive well. This
>>>>>>> > does sadly often mean leaving people behind.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Crazy Karl (I think I have OSDD from technologically-facilitated
>>>>>>> abuse!)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apologies, I did not realize it was the _same_ list the subscribe
>>>>>>> link
>>>>>>> was sent to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had assumed by context that this was a new list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major
>>>>>> commercial search engine. Violations of list guidelines will get you
>>>>>> moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt.
>>>>>> Unsubscribe, change to digest mode, or change password by emailing
>>>>>> lt-owner at lists.liberationtech.org.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> *Lorelei KellyResearch Lead, Congressional Modernization
>>>>> <https://beeckcenter.georgetown.edu/project/modernizing-congress/>*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Founder, Georgetown Democracy, Education + Service (GeoDES)*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Lorelei KellyResearch Lead, Congressional Modernization
>>> <https://beeckcenter.georgetown.edu/project/modernizing-congress/>*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Founder, Georgetown Democracy, Education + Service (GeoDES)*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Lorelei KellyResearch Lead, Congressional Modernization
>>> <https://beeckcenter.georgetown.edu/project/modernizing-congress/>*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Founder, Georgetown Democracy, Education + Service (GeoDES)*
>>>
>>> --
>>> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major
>>> commercial search engine. Violations of list guidelines will get you
>>> moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt. Unsubscribe,
>>> change to digest mode, or change password by emailing
>>> lt-owner at lists.liberationtech.org.
>>>
>> --
>> Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major
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>> moderated: https://lists.ghserv.net/mailman/listinfo/lt. Unsubscribe,
>> change to digest mode, or change password by emailing
>> lt-owner at lists.liberationtech.org.
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Warmest Regards
>
>
> Daylon Soh
>
> Founder & General Manager
>
> <https://curiouscore.com/?utm_source=signature&utm_medium=email>
>
> Golden Mile Tower, 6001 Beach Rd, #15-09
> Singapore 199589
>
> Tel: 6591 8672
>
> * <http://curiouscore.com/>curiouscore.com*
>
>
> 2022 Winner of Singapore SME 500
> <https://atc.sg/sme-500-business-promising-entrepreneur-singapore-emerging-brand-award.php>
>  & Spirit of Enterprise <https://soe.org.sg/soe-awards/> Awards
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>
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>


-- 

*Lorelei KellyResearch Lead, Congressional Modernization
<https://beeckcenter.georgetown.edu/project/modernizing-congress/>*



*Founder, Georgetown Democracy, Education + Service (GeoDES)*
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