[liberationtech] [cpsr-activists] Rebuttal to "The Social Dilemma" Movie
Paul
tallpaul at gmail.com
Sat Oct 3 20:50:45 CEST 2020
Thank you for the response, Yosem.
#2 (the *second *#2 đ) is especially interesting, though filling out
an FEC form feels to me like a fairly big obstacle to entry for users.
Paul Cz.
On Sat, Oct 3, 2020, 8:35 AM Yosem Companys <ycompanys at gmail.com> wrote:
> 1. Wevoyce doesn't return any hits on Google Play. Is the app only
> available from your site, at this time?
>
> The app is approved for the Apple and Android stores, but we have yet to
> open for downloads. The only way to download the app at this time is via
> special link. I will send you one separately.
>
> 2. When it talks about propositions (I think that was the word) does this
> mean only actual laws, ballot proposals, etc, or does it mean just
> something that someone advocates and is looking for support for?
>
> Think of a prop as a 435-character petition labeled by a hashtag. There
> are two types:
>
> - ?VoteFor props that are automatically tied to candidates (e.g.,
> ?VoteForBiden or ?VoteForTrump).
> - Props focused on causes (e.g., ?SupportProChoice or ?SupportProLife).
>
> Users can interact with props as they would on social media:
>
> - Follow props.
> - Reply to props.
> - Like props.
> - Etc.
>
> 2. Do you have to put in $5 in order to use the app, or just if you want
> to contribute?
>
> No, just if you want to contribute.
>
> Participation is tiered based on real-world validation:
>
> - Using the app is free (i.e., there is no financial cost to using the
> app). Anyone may download the app, set up an account, and do the following:
> (1) read propositions, (2) read what people post, and (3) vote on props and
> what people say.
> - Anyone who registers to vote (and thus verifies they are a real
> person) may post.
> - Anyone who fills out the FEC form may donate. To ensure real people
> have a real impact, donating occurs via liking, as little as a penny. We
> call it, "Put your $ where your <3 is." Anytime you like something, you are
> donating to it, so you need to put at least $5 in your account to like
> things.
>
> One thing to note is that all the donations end up going to political
> candidates in at least three ways (and this is how we are campaign finance
> reform in an app):
>
> - You may donate to candidates directly via their VoteFor prop.
> - You may advocate candidates. If anyone likes you, any likes (i.e.,
> real money) you receive go to the candidate(s) you advocate.
> - You may donate to a cause prop, and politicians who publicly commit
> to support these causes get a share of the donations. (You are told in
> advance who will get your donations.)
>
> Reading, voting, and donating can be private. Posting is always public.
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 12:55 PM Paul <tallpaul at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Yosem,
>> I just started the signup process and I have three questions:
>> 1) do you have to put in $5 in order to use the app, or just if you
>> want to contribute?
>> 2) Wevoyce doesn't return any hits on Google Play. Is the app only
>> available from your site, at this time?
>> 3) when it talks about propositions (I think that was the word) does
>> this mean only actual laws, ballot proposals, etc, or does it mean just
>> something that someone advocates and is looking for support for?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Paul
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 12:18 PM Paul <tallpaul at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Yosem,
>>> Thanks for letting us know about Wevoyce. I just skimmed it but the
>>> bits about "real people*," upvoting and, especially, micro donations, sound
>>> very interesting.
>>> Since my career has been in software testing, I will at least try it
>>> and let you know about anything I see.
>>>
>>> Paul Czyzewski
>>>
>>> * As long as you don't get swamped by real people who are, for example,
>>> Proud Boys or NRA members
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020, 12:04 PM Yosem Companys <ycompanys at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Excellent point, Nathaniel.
>>>>
>>>> Some of us at Liberationtech have gotten together to try to fix
>>>> political discourse on social media and campaign finance by developing a
>>>> new mobile-based solution called Wevoyce. If you and others on the list
>>>> would like to check it out and give us feedback, please let me know. We
>>>> would really appreciate it.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Yosem
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 11:42 AM Nathaniel Borenstein via cpsr-activists
>>>> list <cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This may sound naive, but here goesâŚ
>>>>>
>>>>> Social media are just the latest way for people to communicate. All
>>>>> the other ways we have found to communicate have allowed us to express both
>>>>> the best and the worst of ourselves. Itâs often easier to figure out how
>>>>> to express the worst, but that doesnât mean we canât focus on the best.
>>>>>
>>>>> To my mind the right question is this: how can we use social media to
>>>>> create countervailing trends to the ones we have spent so much time
>>>>> bemoaning?
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately it is possible that the best answers to this question
>>>>> will require wrenching control of the social media landscape from big
>>>>> companies, but I suspect there is a fair amount we can do short of that. â
>>>>> Nathaniel
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 1, 2020, at 12:33 PM, Doug Schuler via cpsr-activists list <
>>>>> cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> One question is certainly why would one person use social media. The
>>>>> "CPSR" angle on it in my opinion would be something like this: Given the
>>>>> immense damage that social media as it's currently deployed and used wreaks
>>>>> on society, the public sphere, democracy, mental health, whatever you want
>>>>> to call it, what ought computer professionals do about it?
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems like other hams that are perpetrated in that it affects
>>>>> different people unequally.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I would also argue that, as with TV, individuals can "turn it off"
>>>>> but they can't turn off social media culture...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:28 PM Paul via cpsr-activists list <
>>>>> cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> rant
>>>>>>> I think that the crucial issue with facebook, twitter, etc is
>>>>>>> not just how manipulative they are, or are not. It's how Jeff long ago
>>>>>>> answered TV. I.E., don't use it at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course I realize that this side-steps the issue for the
>>>>>>> hundreds of millions of people who *do* use them. But, news aside, they
>>>>>>> are too much of a time sink and, IMO, the signal to noise ratio is
>>>>>>> unbelievably low.* Since I'm ranting, I'll throw in my Twitter analogy;
>>>>>>> it's like opening and reading two hundred fortune cookies because
>>>>>>> *one* of them may include something that you're glad you've
>>>>>>> read.** I'm not a very productive person, and I'm in no critical function
>>>>>>> (well, for a few more weeks, I will help some US Census enumerators who are
>>>>>>> having payroll issues) but, even when I'm unemployed, my time is *far* too
>>>>>>> valuable to spend on social media.
>>>>>>> One more opinion before I step off my high-horse. Getting news
>>>>>>> from Facebook or other social media is totally a losing proposition.
>>>>>>> Advising people on how to fix it, or how to confirm what they read, is a
>>>>>>> waste of time. The crucial part of getting news is to somehow find some
>>>>>>> trustworthy sources, and start from there. I don't agree with the spin on
>>>>>>> everything in the NY Times but I fully believe that, for reasons of the
>>>>>>> personal integrity of the journalists and also to protect their bottom
>>>>>>> line, they are never going to invent things that they print.
>>>>>>> /rant off
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> paul czyzewski
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * if there was a way for me to just see my friends' family photos on
>>>>>>> facebook; ie, no news, and also no "vital" links passed on my well-meaning
>>>>>>> friends, I'd probably start looking at it again. But I think that there is
>>>>>>> (deliberately) no way to filter it that way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ** I once gave twitter what I thought was a fair test. There
>>>>>>> were tsunami warnings in Hawaii so I used some filter -- I don't know if
>>>>>>> it's still exists or not -- to watch a stream of tweets about that,
>>>>>>> real-time. Instead of the hoped-for "I see the wave entering the harbor;
>>>>>>> small boats are being overturned," I saw tweets on the order of "The news
>>>>>>> reported that, 30 minutes ago, the waves were twenty miles away."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:46 PM Jeff Johnson via cpsr-activists list
>>>>>>> <cpsr-activists at lists.cpsr.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This article argues that âThe Social Dilemmaâ movie is overblown:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200928/11452045401/social-dilemma-manipulates-you-with-misinformation-as-it-tries-to-warn-you-manipulation-misinformation.shtml
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For all list information and functions, see:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> For all list information and functions, see:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Douglas Schuler
>>>>> douglas at publicsphereproject.org
>>>>> Twitter: @doug_schuler
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Public Sphere Project
>>>>> http://www.publicsphereproject.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> Mailing list ~ Collective Intelligence for the Common Good
>>>>> * http://lists.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/ci
>>>>> <http://lists.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/ci>4cg-announce*
>>>>>
>>>>> Creating the World Citizen Parliament
>>>>>
>>>>> http://interactions.acm.org/archive/view/may-june-2013/creating-the-world-citizen-parliament
>>>>>
>>>>> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution
>>>>> (project)
>>>>> http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/lv
>>>>> <http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution
>>>>> (book)
>>>>> http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>>>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
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>>>>>
>>>>
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