[liberationtech] Time to Switch to Discord & Mozilla Firefox?

Tue Jun 25 22:24:55 CEST 2019

One developer group (Cardano and also Hyperledger Indy?) decided that
Rocket Chat

https://rocket.chat

was superior to Riot, but it was close.

From:
Danie van der Merwe (in response to a comment on G+. He now posts on MeWe)
mentioned you in a comment on Danie van der Merwe's post.
+David Stodolsky <https://plus.google.com/100110805083696791816> yep
Rocket.chat is also good - nice UI

https://medium.com/ignation/time-to-replace-slack-who-will-w
in-mattermost-or-riot-matrix-a090e9cdc219

<https://plus.google.com/_/notifications/emlink?emr=04712348056802630381&emid=CJCghMuj3t4CFdKhAgodKQsNPg&path=%2F112580063909169692065&dt=1542555646715&ub=STREAM_AT_REPLY>
Danie van der Merwe
*Time to replace Slack! Who will win, MatterMost or Riot/Matrix?*

dss

On 25 June 2019 at 19:50:56, Doug Schuler (douglas at publicsphereproject.org)
wrote:

We need a consumer reports for this type of information!  Thanks everybody.

— Doug

On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 9:51 AM Rory Byrne <rory at secfirst.org> wrote:

> FWIW, we experimented about a year ago with getting a three of our civil
> society organisations running internally on Matrix (via Riot.im) vs
> Mattermost. The main feedback against Matrix/Riot was UI/UX issues. A lot
> of users just felt overwhelmed with the options around things like security
> (of course personally I love that). So all of the orgs ended up going with
> Mattermost. Which is still a decent system but obviously still lacks e2e
> encryption at the moment I think.
>
> On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 at 15:37, Yonatan Miller <mathsolver24 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> What are your thoughts in terms of usability between setting up
>> mattermost and riot for developer and non developer audiences?
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 10:12 PM Julian Oliver <julian at julianoliver.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ..on Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 12:28:26PM -0700, Yosem Companys wrote:
>>> > Internet Freedom Festival uses Mattermost:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> https://medium.com/iff-community-stories/were-not-a-conference-9cf252199652
>>>
>>>
>>> Definitely go with self-hosted Mattermost or RocketChat or RiotIM. The
>>> former
>>> FLOSS 'team edition' is *astonishingly* performant. I installed and
>>> sysadmin a
>>> server with many thousands of members (at risk groups) spanning over 160
>>> teams.
>>> It's extra-ordinarily fast - barely expresses any load on the system,
>>> and is
>>> used heavily day in and out.
>>>
>>> Discord has among the worst privacy ToS in the chat space, openly
>>> presenting
>>> their service as a data harvest for downstream buyers.
>>>
>>> "By uploading, distributing, transmitting or otherwise using Your
>>> Content with
>>> the Service, you grant to us a perpetual, nonexclusive, transferable,
>>> royalty-free, sublicensable, and worldwide license to use, host,
>>> reproduce,
>>> modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from,
>>> distribute,
>>> perform, and display Your Content in connection with operating and
>>> providing the
>>> Service."
>>>
>>>     https://discordapp.com/terms
>>>
>>> Discord are actually even worse than Slack as regards our basic rights
>>> online,
>>> which is itself quite an achievement. Not sure I can think of a worse
>>> partner
>>> for mass team chat!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Julian
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 12:14 PM Petter Ericson <pettter at acc.umu.se>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > On 24 juni, 2019 - axel simon wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 10:17:02PM -0700, Yosem Companys wrote:
>>> > > > > Discord: what Facebook is trying to become.
>>> > > > >
>>> > >
>>> https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/03/how-discord-went-mainstream-influencers/584671/
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Why to switch from Google Chrome to Mozilla Firefox.
>>> > > > >
>>> > >
>>> https://www.siliconvalley.com/2019/06/21/google-chrome-has-become-surveillance-software-its-time-to-switch/
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Hi,
>>> > > > Discord is interesting in that it's popular and offers people the
>>> > > possibility to have their own community (which they call "server", I
>>> > > believe), but there's nothing free and open source about it.
>>> > >
>>> > > As of this writing, Discord has, as if to prove this point, been
>>> globally
>>> > > unavailable due to Cloudflare issues.
>>> > >
>>> > > > Matrix, and its main client Riot, are much more interesting to me
>>> > > currently, as they are (ambitiously) trying to solve multiple
>>> problems at
>>> > > once: a modern chat system, with voice and video and file sharing,
>>> with
>>> > > end-to-end cryptography, while maintaining a decentralised network
>>> > > architecture so that anyone can run their own instance, join and
>>> federate
>>> > > with the rest.
>>> > >
>>> > > Well, to harp on about long lost battles - XMPP did it first. I
>>> firmly
>>> > > believe that if all the effort spent on Matrix clients had instead
>>> been put
>>> > > into improving XMPP, then it would far surpass the current standards
>>> of
>>> > > both. Even so, XMPP is the protocol with several independent and
>>> mutually
>>> > > compatible server _and_ client implementations, as well a
>>> well-established
>>> > > protocol (and protocol extension process).
>>> > >
>>> > > > Current versions of Riot might not be entirely as slick as
>>> Discord, but
>>> > > they are getting better and they are very usable.
>>> > > > Incidently, Matrix has bridges to connect to other chat network
>>> (and
>>> > > ideally, bridge them together, hence the name), and can bridge to
>>> Discord.
>>> > > So there's a possibility of getting everyone to play nice with each
>>> other.
>>> > >
>>> > > Bridging has, time and again, shown itself to be a Much Harder
>>> Problem
>>> > > than may be apparent, with massive amounts of boring corner cases and
>>> > > exceptions. We'll see.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Regarding Firefox vs. Chrome, Firefox has been the only browser
>>> (with
>>> > > any relevant market share) that isn't the product of a for profit
>>> company
>>> > > for a while. While Mozilla have made questionable descisions at time
>>> (and
>>> > > outright mistakes at others), that alone should be a strong argument
>>> to
>>> > > consider where one gets their browser from. I recall reading a
>>> statement in
>>> > > an article around Chrome's release about 10 years ago by then-CEO
>>> Eric
>>> > > Schmidt explaining that at the end of the day, if you want to be
>>> able to
>>> > > really control and see what users are doing, you need your own
>>> browser.
>>> > > This was when people couldn't quite understand why Google would
>>> build its
>>> > > own browser when Firefox had manage to end the Internet Explorer
>>> dead lock
>>> > > and they had a good relationship.
>>> > > > That passage really stayed with me (and if anyone were to find it,
>>> I'd
>>> > > be very greatful, I can't seem to do so).
>>> > > >
>>> > > > So yes, it's not that surprising that, when push comes to shove,
>>> the
>>> > > engineering teams working on Chrome have to bow to the business
>>> priorities
>>> > > of Google, the world's (more or less) biggest advertisement company.
>>> > >
>>> > > I'm in complete agreement.
>>> > >
>>> > > > Cheers,
>>> > > >
>>> > > > axel
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > > axel simon
>>> > > > mail/matrix: axelsimon at axelsimon.net
>>> > > > twitter: @axelsimon
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > > Liberationtech is public & archives are searchable from any major
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>>> > > --
>>> > > Petter Ericson (pettter at acc.umu.se)
>>> > >
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>>> --
>>> Julian Oliver
>>> https://julianoliver.com
>>> https://criticalengineering.org
>>> PGP https://julianoliver.com/key.asc
>>> Beware the auto-complete life
>>>
>>>
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--
Douglas Schuler
douglas at publicsphereproject.org
Twitter: @doug_schuler

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David Stodolsky, PhD                Institute for Social Informatics

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dss at socialinformatics.org                Tel./Viber +45 3095 4070
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