[liberationtech] Terry Winograd and Evgeny Morozov

Tue Jul 2 15:50:43 PDT 2013

Michael, 

You put your finger on exactly what's wrong with the SV techno-utopians!

They don't recognize that they don't know what they don't know!!!

And not to be churlish, but of course language did not solve all of our problems. But as in the parable you mentioned, It did help humankind dominate nature — lions included.

— Doug

On Jul 2, 2013, at 3:20 PM, Glassman, Michael wrote:

> I think the reason we need to be so careful about the critiques of the Internet like those of Mozorov is our guiding principle should always be,
> 
> Recognize that you don't know what you don't know.
> 
> I remember a couple of years ago a student came into my office wanting to sign me up for Twitter.  I laughed and said no.  140 characters?  Are you kidding me?  I don't care what Roseanne Barr had for breakfast.  I was sooooo certain it was just some absurd fad that would die out in a year or two.
> 
> If you told me this new "technology" was going to help determine a woman's control over her own body I would have thought you were insane.  A little over a week ago I watched on Youtube (where I thought I would only get to hear old Bob Dylan tunes) as a bunch of people, many who had no history of activism, used Twitter to organize a very sophisticated plan to freeze the Texas Senate until midnight.  It was amazing.
> 
> What would Gandhi have thought of Twitter.
> 
> There is this cartoon I have wanted to draw but didn't because I can't draw (hey maybe there's an app for that).
> 
> Two lions are sitting on a hill watching a bunch of homo sapien sapiens place a hunt.
> 
> Lion one says:   I hate these humans with their language triumphalism.  They think it's going to solve all these problems for them.
> 
> Lion two says:  Don't worry, it's just a passing fad.  We're still gonna be kings.  Nothing like this language is going to replace our speed and power.
> 
> I'm thinking of calling the first lion Morozov.
> 
> Michael
> ________________________________________
> From: liberationtech-bounces at lists.stanford.edu [liberationtech-bounces at lists.stanford.edu] on behalf of Andrés Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes [alps6085 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 4:40 PM
> To: liberationtech
> Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Terry Winograd and Evgeny Morozov
> 
> This discussion on "solutionism" reminds of a passage of "Small is
> Beautiful", by E. F. Schumacher:
> 
> "Gandhi used to talk disparagingly of 'dreaming of systems so perfect
> that no-one will need to be good'. But is it not precisely this dream
> which we can now implement in reality with our marvelous powers of
> science and technology? Why ask for virtues, which man may never
> acquire, when scientific rationality and technical competence are all
> that is needed?"
> 
> Best Regards | Cordiales Saludos | Grato,
> 
> Andrés L. Pacheco Sanfuentes
> <alps at acm.org>
> +1 (817) 271-9619
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Reed Black <reed at unsafeword.org> wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 2:57 PM, David Johnson <david at bostonreview.net> wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>> 
>>> I highly recommend this really excellent interview between Terry Winograd
>>> and Evgeny Morozov about his new book, To Save Everything, Click Here ...
>>> 
>>> http://www.bostonreview.net/books-ideas/whats-wrong-technological-fixes
>> 
>> There is a flock of writers whose basic message seems to be "things
>> are always more complicated than you think; stop looking for unifying
>> principles for they will never fit perfectly." Unfortunately I haven't
>> seen any of these authors offer tenable solutions, only helplessness
>> in the face of chaos.
>> 
>> I'm reminded of the joke about the mathematician and the engineer.
>> Each was told he could advance half-way across the room to a beautiful
>> woman, and he could repeat the process as many times as he liked. The
>> mathematician, being familiar with Zeno's paradox, knew that no matter
>> how many times he advanced toward the woman... he would never reach
>> her. And so the mathematician turned away with despair.
>> 
>> The engineer got right to it, knowing that he could get close enough
>> for all practical purposes.
>> 
>> 
>> One should want that mathematician in government, and that engineer
>> offering optional services.
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> 
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Douglas Schuler
douglas at publicsphereproject.org

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