[liberationtech] Cryptography super-group creates unbreakable encryption

Thu Feb 7 13:15:12 PST 2013

And even the "proponents" already have. Here, elsewhere, .. Nobody is happy
at technically ignorant gee-whiz journalism.

The discussion has been, a few times now, how we tend to speak out about
it. And what busses people on the same side seem willing to throw each
other under. Gods know why. -Ali
 On Feb 7, 2013 3:46 PM, "Jillian C. York" <jilliancyork at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm not going to get into the politics or pettiness of this because
> frankly, I don't care.
>
> But this headline<http://www.extremetech.com/mobile/147714-cryptography-super-group-creates-unbreakable-encryption-designed-for-mass-market>and the accompanying claims of unbreakability are so incredibly egregious
> that I would expect *every single person on this list* to speak out
> against those (claims, that is), regardless of their feelings on the actual
> product.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Yosem Companys <companys at stanford.edu>wrote:
>
>> Just as a reminder, please let's all try to refrain from engaging in any
>> personal attacks.  We're all build and use liberationtech to make a
>> difference in various ways, and we're bound to have disagreements.  But
>> let's not forget that we're all working toward the same broad goal of
>> making people's lives better.  Otherwise, we would likely not be on this
>> list.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> YC
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Ali-Reza Anghaie <ali at packetknife.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Douglas, I'm not sure many people are disagreeing with the end-goals and
>>> even Zimmerman acknolwedges the window for verifiable source proof is
>>> closing fast (longer than many would have liked as-is).
>>>
>>> My comments to Nadim are coming from a tact perspective - if the goal is
>>> to gain wider adoption and recognition for all the community work, good
>>> projects, verified projects, etc. etc. then it helps when you play in the
>>> sanboxes occupied by more than the hackers and programmers making it happen.
>>>
>>> It's not uncommon to have people, who need solutions the most, to be
>>> afraid of projects because of the "main name" associated with them after
>>> some cursory rant reading. Nadim = Cryptocat, Jacob = TOR, Theo = OpenBSD,
>>> etc. etc.
>>>
>>> It's easy to tell everyone else to pound sand or to roll all activist
>>> causes into one for the collective libtech "us" - it's not so each when we
>>> take it elsewhere. Just trying to see how we can promote things that look
>>> less like personal grips and trolls - and more like building something
>>> useful. -Ali
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Douglas Lucas <dal at riseup.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can Silent Circle promoters explain why Zimmerman is excused from
>>>> Kerckhoffs's principle?
>>>>
>>>> Is it because something unverifiable is allegedly better than nothing?
>>>> Even if we had divine knowledge to tell us Silent Circle is secure,
>>>> isn't it an overriding problem to encourage lock-in of closed source
>>>> being acceptable for something as common as text-messaging?
>>>>
>>>> It is good to have a scrappy talented young person such as Nadim being
>>>> pesky to older, accepted people.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 02/07/2013 09:45 AM, Julien Rabier wrote:
>>>> > Hello all,
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm no sec expert but to me, it's so obvious that Nadim is right on
>>>> this.
>>>> > Perhaps the form is not perfect, but if he's the only one fighting
>>>> for our
>>>> > own sanity here, as he says, that's no surprise.
>>>> >
>>>> > We should all be asking Silent Circle to commit to their statement
>>>> and show
>>>> > us the source code of their so-called unbreakable encryption tools.
>>>> >
>>>> > Again, I'm no sec expert and I won't be the guy who will do the hard
>>>> task of
>>>> > auditing and reviewing this code. But as a user, as a citizen and
>>>> perhaps an
>>>> > activist, I want the source code of such tools to be reviewed widely
>>>> and
>>>> > publicly before using and promoting it.
>>>> >
>>>> > My 2 euro cents,
>>>> > Julien
>>>> >
>>>> > Le 07 févr. - 10:31, Nadim Kobeissi a écrit :
>>>> >> Small follow-up:
>>>> >> Maybe it's true I look like my goal here is just to foam at the
>>>> mouth at
>>>> >> Silent Circle. Maybe it looks like I'm just here to annoy Chris, and
>>>> I'm
>>>> >> truly sorry. These are not my goals, even if my method seems forced.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I've tried writing multiple blog posts about Silent Circle,
>>>> contacting
>>>> >> Silent Circle, asking journalists to *please* mention the importance
>>>> of
>>>> >> free, open source in cryptography, and so on. All of this has
>>>> failed. It
>>>> >> has simply become clear to me that Silent Circle enjoys a double
>>>> standard
>>>> >> because of the reputation of those behind it.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Silent Circle may be developed by Gods, but this is just quite
>>>> plainly
>>>> >> unfair. If someone repeatedly claims, towards activists, to have
>>>> developed
>>>> >> "unbreakable encryption", markets it closed-source for money, and
>>>> receives
>>>> >> nothing but nods of recognition and applause from the press and even
>>>> >> from *security
>>>> >> experts* (?!) then something is seriously wrong! No one should be
>>>> allowed
>>>> >> to commit these wrongs, not even Silent Circle.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I feel like I'm fighting for our own sanity here. Look at what you're
>>>> >> allowing to happen!
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> NK
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Nadim Kobeissi <nadim at nadim.cc>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:11 AM, Christopher Soghoian <
>>>> chris at soghoian.net>wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> It is clear that you seem to have developed a foaming-in-the-mouth,
>>>> >>>> irrational hate of Silent Circle. As such, anyone who fails to
>>>> denounce
>>>> >>>> Phil Zimmermann as the great Satan is, in your eyes, some kind of
>>>> corrupt
>>>> >>>> shill.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Chris,
>>>> >>> You have repeatedly stood up asking VoIP software to be more
>>>> transparent
>>>> >>> about their encryption. You have repeatedly stood up when the media
>>>> >>> overblew coverage into hype.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> However, Silent Circle remains *the only case* where you remain
>>>> mentioned
>>>> >>> regularly in articles on the company, where you make a point to
>>>> completely
>>>> >>> ignore that they are posting everywhere on their social media that
>>>> they are
>>>> >>> developing "unbreakable encryption", and marketing it,
>>>> closed-source,
>>>> >>> towardsactivists. When I confront you about this, you publicly
>>>> accuse me of
>>>> >>> "soliciting a hit piece" (!!) against Silent Circle.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> That is what I have a problem with: A huge, clear, obvious double
>>>> standard
>>>> >>> strictly made available for Silent Circle.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I proudly stand by every single statement quoted in that Verge
>>>> story.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Chris
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Nadim Kobeissi <nadim at nadim.cc>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Chris Soghoian gives Silent Circle's unbreakable encryption an
>>>> entire
>>>> >>>>> article's worth of lip service here, it must be really
>>>> unbreakable:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/6/3950664/phil-zimmermann-wants-to-save-you-from-your-phone
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> NK
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Brian Conley <
>>>> brianc at smallworldnews.tv>wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> I heard they have a super secret crypto clubhouse in the belly
>>>> of an
>>>> >>>>>> extinct volcano.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Other rumors suggest they built their lab in the liberated
>>>> tunnels
>>>> >>>>>> beneath bin ladens secret lair in Pakistan...
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 6, 2013, at 19:42, Nadim Kobeissi <nadim at nadim.cc> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Actual headline.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> http://www.extremetech.com/mobile/147714-cryptography-super-group-creates-unbreakable-encryption-designed-for-mass-market
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> NK
>>>> >>>>>>
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>
> --
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> site:  jilliancyork.com <http://jilliancyork.com/>* | *
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>
> "We must not be afraid of dreaming the seemingly impossible if we want the
> seemingly impossible to become a reality" - *Vaclav Havel*
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