[liberationtech] Bill Gates on Project Loon vs malaria

[h0ost]

There are two big problems with Gates' position (at least).

1. The solution of massive social issues such as, famine and clean
water, are definitely beyond the reach of single individuals.  As
wealthy as Gates is, his resources are nothing when compared to the
resources of states.  Thus far in history, famine and clean water have
been provided exclusively through broad, deliberate, and conscious
application of state power.  This is not the domain of bratty and
wealthy individuals, who think they can take on the mission of states.

2. Famine is not caused by a lack of knowledge. It is caused by larger,
overarching political issues such as, civil war, imperialism and
colonialism, massive natural disasters and ineffective response to such
disasters.

The solution has to be political, not a function of knowledge, or the
cash of wealthy individuals.

Bono doesn't understand this, and neither does Gates.  Thus, their
efforts are essentially meaningless on a global scale. Or, some might
argue, actually harmful.

On 08/10/2013 05:38 PM, Richard Brooks wrote:
> Nadim,
> 
> I think it is good that Bill Gates is working to
> solve health issues that have been ignored because
> the people involved are mainly poor and dark
> complected.
> 
> I think freedom of information, though, may be
> more important than you think. Take, for example,
> The Gambia, one of the poorest countries on Earth
> with all of the problems you mentioned.
> 
> Oddly enough, the dictator running the country seems to be
> making a lot of money off the country's mineral riches
> while letting the majority of the people rot in poverty.
> It is not a coincidence that many of the poorest countries
> are the least well governed. Those governments also
> tend to have very restrictive information controls.
> 
> In many ways, creating freer access to information may
> do more to to help some of these problems than anything
> else. Once people can know what is going on and control
> their destiny, they may be able to find a way out of
> poverty. Once dark complected people have money, the
> medical industry may be willing to invest in solving
> their problems and invest less in botox and erectile
> dysfunction medicines.
> 
> -Richard
> 
> On 8/10/2013 7:48 AM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
>> I actually agree with Bill Gates here. If I had his money, I would make sure people have clean water, toilets, condoms, before even starting to consider working on Internet access.
>>
>> Sure, his comments are "below the belt" as Andrés says below, but this is only because he is unfairly attacking a noble, unrelated project. But the question he raises is: if you have unlimited money and want to tackle what you perceive as a human rights necessity, what do you go for?
>>
>> From my perspective of the world, the Internet should be on the bottom of this list. Sure, it should *be* on the list, but people who think that it's a priority really need to examine the kind of awful problems that the world has right now. No water, no food, no shelter, no hygiene, no toilets, no education, no condoms, no medication… all of those things need to be solved before we start worrying about the lack of Internet.
>>
>> Michael Glassman notes (also earlier in this thread):
>> "Famine is not caused by lack of food but by lack of knowledge about access and location to food - something I believe is much more easily overcome through Internet access perhaps."
>>
>> It doesn't just work like that, I don't think. You don't just open Internet access and fund Internet centres and expect knowledge problems to work themselves out. Basic necessities need to be fulfilled first, and in that scenario, that deeply includes education. And in order to focus on education, you're going to need less malaria and more shelter, toilets and hygiene… I hope I'm making my point clearly here.
>>
>> This is a super interesting issue! I guess I'm going to stick to the conservative side here, though. The Internet is the current human rights issue for developed regions of the Middle East and North Africa (and deservedly so!!), but in some other parts of the world, we're just not there yet. There are more basic problems to solve, and this is only a testament to how harsh the world can be.
>>
>> NK
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2013-08-09, at 7:25 PM, Kyle Maxwell <kylem at xwell.org> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/09/bill-gates-google-project-loon
>>>
>>> ===
>>>
>>> Bill Gates criticises Google's Project Loon initiative
>>>
>>> Former Microsoft chief says low-income countries need more than just
>>> internet access
>>>
>>> ===
>>>
>>> Google's Project Loon initiative wants to provide internet access for
>>> the developing world from a network of balloons floating in the
>>> stratosphere. Former Microsoft boss Bill Gates isn't keen on the idea.
>>>
>>> "When you're dying of malaria , I suppose you'll look up and see that
>>> balloon, and I'm not sure how it'll help you. When a kid gets
>>> diarrhoea, no, there's no website that relieves that," Gates told
>>> Business Week, in an interview about the work of the Bill & Melinda
>>> Gates Foundation.
>>>
>>> "Certainly I'm a huge believer in the digital revolution. And
>>> connecting up primary-healthcare centres, connecting up schools, those
>>> are good things. But no, those are not, for the really low-income
>>> countries, unless you directly say we're going to do something about
>>> malaria."
>>>
>>> Gates also questioned Google's commitment to projects in developing
>>> countries through its Google.org arm and related initiatives.
>>>
>>> "Google started out saying they were going to do a broad set of
>>> things. They hired Larry Brilliant, and they got fantastic publicity,"
>>> said Gates. "And then they shut it all down. Now they're just doing
>>> their core thing. Fine. But the actors who just do their core thing
>>> are not going to uplift the poor."
>>>
>>> Project Loon was announced in June as Google launched a pilot scheme
>>> with 30 balloons above New Zealand, providing internet access through
>>> receivers on the ground.
>>>
>>> "We believe that it might actually be possible to build a ring of
>>> balloons, flying around the globe on the stratospheric winds, that
>>> provides Internet access to the earth below," explained project lead
>>> Mike Cassidy at the time, suggesting speeds could eventually match
>>> today's 3G networks.
>>>
>>> "As a result, we hope balloons could become an option for connecting
>>> rural, remote, and under-served areas, and for helping with
>>> communications after natural disasters. The idea may sound a bit crazy
>>> – and that's part of the reason we're calling it Project Loon – but
>>> there's solid science behind it."
>>>
>>> Google has worked with organisations trying to tackle healthcare in
>>> developing countries through its Google for Nonprofits initiative,
>>> with case studies on its website for Direct Relief International ,
>>> Unicef and Charity: Water outlining some of its efforts.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, Google.org's webpage for its Crisis Response activities
>>> makes prominent use of a photo of someone using their mobile phone in
>>> the aftermath of a disaster in Haiti, supplied by the Bill & Melinda
>>> Gates Foundation.
>>>
>>> Gates' views on malaria are heartfelt, though. It's described as a
>>> "top priority" for the Foundation , which has so far committed nearly
>>> $2bn (£1.3bn) in grants towards research into treatments, diagnosis
>>> and mosquito-control technologies, as well as $1.4bn to the Global
>>> Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria.
>>>
>>> This sits alongside the foundation's work towards eradicating Polio.
>>> "If we get credibility from the polio success, we can be more
>>> articulate about a malaria or measles elimination plan," Gates told
>>> Business Week. "The big one would be malaria, but that's a long-term,
>>> in-my-lifetime-type thing, not imminent."
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> @kylemaxwell
>>> --
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