[liberationtech] going back to Nadim's original question

[Nadim Kobeissi]

On 2013-08-07, at 3:22 PM, Shava Nerad <shava23 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Forgive me, but I'd like to ask a question here.
> Tor is a tool that is undeniably, directly marketed toward activists in high-risk environments. Tor's presentations at conferences centre around how Tor obtains increased usage in Arab Spring countries that matches the timeline of revolutionary action. It's incredibly direct. Tor's own spokespeople encourage people in Iran, Egypt and so on to use Tor and only Tor as the most secure tool for activist anonymity, and privacy.
> Now, we find out that the FBI has been sitting on an exploit since an unknown amount of time that can compromise the Tor Browser Bundle, which is currently the main way to download Tor and the only way to download Tor for the average end-user, and is deploying it en-masse to the visitors of what seems to be around half of all Tor hidden services, which have also been compromised
> I've gotten quite some flak from certain people at Tor for supposedly marketing Cryptocat to activists, which is not something I do, but that the media did last year. We know for a fact that Tor does in fact market to activists. And yet, I have a feeling that the flak towards Tor, for something this incredibly huge, will be quite small, on this mailing list and on other discussion forums, especially compared to the kind of vitriol Cryptocat receives.
> I would like an explanation as to why this is the case.
> NK
> 
> Forgive me but I would like to answer a question here.
> 
> The reason, since you ask, Nadim, is that it is because you are a contentious person who attacks people relentlessly who you feel are rivals, whether they are Tor or Silent Circle, or anyone else in the landscape.  You go after them to wear them down, with some attitude that you are some crusader for good, when in reality, you are just going after people to wear them out with the same points over and over again because you want to be seen as better than they are.  It seems to be about ego and stamina.  

Sorry, Libtech, I have no idea why this was sent to the list and not to me individually.

Shava,
The amount of sheer, unfiltered anger and hatred in your email is really messed up. But I'll answer it.

Let me first clarify that I absolutely do not see Tor or Silent Circle as a rival. Tor is anonymity software. Silent Circle is encrypted phone call software for mobile phones. I make encrypted web chat software, which is completely unrelated to Tor and only quite distantly related to Silent Circle. It makes absolutely no sense for me to see those two as competitors.

With that clarified, I'll answer your email, even though I don't think it belongs on this list, but should have been sent to me privately.

Yes, I was a relentless with Jacob. The reason I did this was simply to try and show him what it feels like to be treated like this when you have a security vulnerability. This is exactly how Jacob treats every project around him when they're in a bad situation, when he's in a good mood. When he's in a bad mood, he is incredibly abusive.

I did not mean to attack Tor. But I sent critical responses to Jacob's emails. I did this because the guy needs to learn a lesson about what it feels like to be treated like this. Jacob has a problem. For years, I have been abused in private and in public by Jacob regarding my work on Cryptocat, in ways that are so underhanded that if I described them on this list, you would not even believe me. He does this to *many projects*. You obviously have no idea what I'm talking about, or you wouldn't have sent this email. But many do, and they understand. I think Tor needs to very urgently stop legitimizing someone like him.

Tor reacted responsibly. Jacob reacted the way he usually does, except with an additional small dash of professionalism due to the pressure. I wanted to use this opportunity to give Jacob a taste of his own medicine with the hope that he will understand what it feels like for him to treat anyone in a weak situation the way he does. Notice that I stopped sending emails when he did in fact politely concede to my concerns, and I I didn't even go a tenth as far as he has done with me and other projects.

> 
> Vitriol is what you produce, Nadim, and so it is what you invite when something erupts in your own vicinity.  That's karma.  Look what you are laying in terms of land mines for when something comes up for your own stuff?  Think about it.  You are being relentless, and  you are taking time away from emergency response from people who are strapped for time right now.  It's not sane.

You're saying that it's normal for people to expect "land mines" when "something comes up with [their] own stuff". Well, this is exactly what happened here. I've been abused professionally and personally by Jacob for years. I privately, politely, correctly complained to Tor but was snubbed off quite unceremoniously. So I decided to treat him the way he treats smaller projects to try and show him what it felt like. I repeat: I didn't even go a tenth as far as he does (most of his vitriol is not public), and here I am honestly explaining things to you. To be honest, I feel your email is more vitriolic than everything I've said to Jacob on this mailing list for the past week combined.

And yes, this drains my time too. Including this email; I don't understand how you found the time to write it yourself.

Your email almost reads like hate mail, and I can't think of a reason you'd send it in public instead of to me directly. Do you still work for Tor?

NK

> 
> Everyone here observes this, so it's just not an ad hominem, and you ask for an answer so I can't possibly be called on for answering the question.  And I'm sure there are others here who will, in the interest of peer counseling, tell you that your attitude is not helping you.  You will find that if you learn to mellow out and ratchet down a bit, you will get more out of the community back in return.
> 
> And this is why you get no respect from the community for CryptoCat -- because you extend no respect to the people in your same space.  You get back what you give.  This is a basic law of the universe.
> 
> Now that I have answered your original question, will you please stop talking in circles?  I suspect a great many people are tired of it, and it is not serving anyone in the long term.  It does not serve"justice," nor "the users," nor the future of your project, and I do not think it is not serving your reputation.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> yrs,
> -- 
> 
> Shava Nerad
> shava23 at gmail.com
> --
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