[liberationtech] issilentcircleopensourceyet.com
Nadim Kobeissi
nadim at nadim.cc
Tue Nov 6 11:25:01 PST 2012
Greg,
If you can see anything that is biased in my blog post, please let me know
so I can fix it ASAP.
NK
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Greg Norcie <greg at norcie.com> wrote:
> Nadim,
>
> I am aware of your blog post - especially since this is the third time
> you have posted it in this thread :)
>
> I am simply cautioning you that you could be creating the appearance of
> a bias.
> --
> Greg Norcie (greg at norcie.com)
> GPG key: 0x1B873635
>
> On 11/6/12 2:13 PM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
> > Greg,
> > I don't intend to be anonymous. Why would I? I intend for Silent Circle
> > to open their source code for review, because as it stands they are
> > being dangerous to the methodology of security software development. I
> > have already written a blog post about this under my own
> > name: http://log.nadim.cc/?p=89
> >
> >
> > NK
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Greg Norcie <greg at norcie.com
> > <mailto:greg at norcie.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Nadim,
> >
> > You are correct - the website (nor the whois) mention you. But your
> post
> > on this mailing list does.
> >
> > You seem like a very intelligent guy - if you had intended this to
> be an
> > anonymous critique, I doubt you'd have used your real name to post
> the
> > link :)
> > --
> > Greg Norcie (greg at norcie.com <mailto:greg at norcie.com>)
> > GPG key: 0x1B873635
> >
> > On 11/6/12 2:06 PM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
> > > Greg,
> > > The website does not mention me at all, it's purely meant as a
> > complaint
> > > against Silent Circle's policy. I've already written a lengthy post
> > > regarding Silent Circle (http://log.nadim.cc/?p=89) and yet have
> > > received no reply.
> > >
> > >
> > > NK
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Greg Norcie <greg at norcie.com
> > <mailto:greg at norcie.com>
> > > <mailto:greg at norcie.com <mailto:greg at norcie.com>>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Nadim
> > >
> > > I understand your position, but actions like this website
> > won't help
> > > your cause.
> > >
> > > Can you understand how actions like setting up this web site
> > might be
> > > viewed as a way to call attention to oneself, rather than
> > champion the
> > > (respectable) ideals of the open source movement?
> > > --
> > > Greg Norcie (greg at norcie.com <mailto:greg at norcie.com>
> > <mailto:greg at norcie.com <mailto:greg at norcie.com>>)
> > > GPG key: 0x1B873635
> > >
> > > On 11/6/12 1:53 PM, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
> > > > Ali,
> > > > The issue is trust. Security software verifiability should
> > not have to
> > > > depend on Silent Circle (or who they hire to audit, for
> example
> > > Veracode.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > NK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Ali-Reza Anghaie
> > > <ali at packetknife.com <mailto:ali at packetknife.com>
> > <mailto:ali at packetknife.com <mailto:ali at packetknife.com>>
> > > > <mailto:ali at packetknife.com <mailto:ali at packetknife.com>
> > <mailto:ali at packetknife.com <mailto:ali at packetknife.com>>>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Nobody would dispute that - that's not quite the same
> > thing as
> > > FOSS
> > > > default positions or some of the other criticisms.
> > > >
> > > > For example, I'd contend a paid Veracode audit would in
> all
> > > > likelihood be better than any typical FOSS audit. Had
> they
> > > done that
> > > > (heck, they might have but I doubt it) and still
> > announced the
> > > > intent of opening the codebase - I wager that would not
> have
> > > stopped
> > > > the criticism.
> > > >
> > > > It appears to be a deep-seeded cultural divide more than
> any
> > > of the
> > > > other factors combined.
> > > >
> > > > -Al
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Yosem Companys
> > > > <companys at stanford.edu <mailto:companys at stanford.edu>
> > <mailto:companys at stanford.edu <mailto:companys at stanford.edu>>
> > > <mailto:companys at stanford.edu <mailto:companys at stanford.edu>
> > <mailto:companys at stanford.edu <mailto:companys at stanford.edu>>>>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Security audits are always important, especially
> > when people's
> > > > lives are at risk.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Nadim Kobeissi
> > > <nadim at nadim.cc
> > > > <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc>
> > <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc>>>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Ali,
> > > > There is no "agenda," and there needn't be one
> > if you
> > > are to
> > > > critique security software. No need to be so
> > aggressive.
> > > > My qualms against Silent Circle are detailed
> > > > here: http://log.nadim.cc/?p=89
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > NK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Ali-Reza Anghaie
> > > > <ali at packetknife.com
> > <mailto:ali at packetknife.com> <mailto:ali at packetknife.com
> > <mailto:ali at packetknife.com>>
> > > <mailto:ali at packetknife.com <mailto:ali at packetknife.com>
> > <mailto:ali at packetknife.com <mailto:ali at packetknife.com>>>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Seriously - what's your agenda?
> > > >
> > > > Where are the domains for the other tens of
> > providers
> > > > who charge arms and legs based on closed
> > protocols
> > > even?
> > > >
> > > > What's the nit with Silent Circle
> specifically?
> > > Because
> > > > they're accessible? Because it's easier to
> use?
> > > Because
> > > > the founders have good track records of
> > standing up to
> > > > Government too?
> > > >
> > > > Being absolutist about everything isn't
> > helping anyone
> > > > who ~needs~ it - it's a privilege of the
> "haves"
> > > that we
> > > > can have these conversations over and over
> > again.
> > > >
> > > > Shouldn't we have taken the "fight" to
> > carriers, Apple
> > > > iOS T&Cs, etc. harder and longer ago? And
> why do
> > > we keep
> > > > expecting private entities to fight our
> > Government
> > > > battles for us? It's a losing proposition and
> > > increases
> > > > the costs-per-individual to untenable levels
> > when
> > > we mix
> > > > absolutely all their enterprise with civil
> > liberty
> > > issues.
> > > >
> > > > There has got to be a better way than this
> > ridiculous
> > > > trolling and bickering. Someone? Anyone?
> > > >
> > > > Again, seriously, what's the agenda against
> > Silent
> > > > Circle specifically?
> > > >
> > > > -Ali
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Nadim
> Kobeissi
> > > > <nadim at nadim.cc <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc
> > <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc>
> > > <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc <mailto:nadim at nadim.cc>>>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > http://issilentcircleopensourceyet.com/
> > > >
> > > > NK
> > > >
> > > > --
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