[liberationtech] /. ITU Approves Deep Packet Inspection

Wed Dec 5 11:03:17 PST 2012

Hi all,
To Nick's point re:what's the problem. I think part of the problem
with the ITU talking about DPI is that it is a case of forum-shifting.
The ITU is a less accountable body than a government. The challenge is
that on a quick skim of this document I find it highly technical in
nature and lacking in any discussion of privacy or data retention
issues. How should we regulate these technologies? Can their
regulation be left to technology firms? It'd be of note to compare the
Canadian CRTC's own debates over traffic management practices
(http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6021/125/).

I'd also point to the great work Chris Parsons
(http://www.christopher-parsons.com/blog/) has done on this issue,
especially: http://www.deeppacketinspection.ca/.

Happy to chat more re: framing matters. It's an interest event and I
am really appreciating all the comments here as always.

Best,
Fen

On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Petter Ericson <pettter at acc.umu.se> wrote:
> Reading the draft document provided by Asher, I find nowhere any
> reference to this being a required activity for any ISP. Instead, it
> talks mainly about how data flows between generalised entities (think
> "devices").
>
> So no, if ITU received a more governing role of the internet, that would
> not _in itself_ lead to Y.2770 being a "required standard" to implement
> for all ISPs (and I have no idea how this would happen anyway, given it
> doesn't concern itself with specififying any actions for ISPs).
>
> There are legitimate uses for DPI, though the examples cited in the
> draft seems to be more about limiting BitTorrent traffic...
>
> So basically, the standard is probably going to do mostly these things:
> a) DPI equipment manufacturers can claim to be "standards compliant"
>    which is a selling point in some circumstances
> b) DPI might get more widely accepted as a technique. It is up to us and
>    other hackers to make sure that censorship and traffic discrimination
>    is not.
> c) It might be slightly more easy for surveillance tech to interoperate
>    between manufacturers, given that the main point of the standard is
>    to suggest everyone output data and accept rules in a standard way.
>
> To be frank, I have been trying to find out what the fuss has been about
> regarding this standard and come up.. not blank, as it _is_ worrying
> that ITU is spending time on this shit, but at least I haven't found
> anything to inspire the absolutely massive shitstorm I have been seeing
> in certain places (e.g. /.). Is it just because it's the ITU doing it
> rather than, say, ISO or ANSI?
>
> Best
>
> /P
>
> On 05 December, 2012 - Nicholas Judd wrote:
>
>> Hi list, Nick from techPresident here. If I could tap into your hive-mind intelligence for a moment to help me be more precise about explaining why this is an issue, I would appreciate it ...
>>
>> Governments, intelligence organizations and assorted nogoodniks already use deep-packet inspection, so the declaration of a standard for DPI comes off as vaguely Orwellian but not news. I'm searching for a way to explain the privacy-advocate position on this is both accurately and concisely.
>>
>> The sense I get from CDT's blog post is that there are three reasons why this is more than just creepy in principle:
>>
>> 1. The standard outlines ways that, in the ITU's view, ISPs should structure their operations so that highly invasive surveillance can function;
>> 2. Under current governance, this standard could be as widely ignored as the <blink> tag, but ISPs could be forced to comply if the ITU becomes a must-follow standards-making body for the Internet — meaning all traffic in every ITU member state, in this extreme example, would be vulnerable by design;
>> 3. On principle, IETF and W3C don't address standards for surveillance, highlighting another way the ITU is ideologically removed from the way the Internet is now governed.
>>
>> Am I on target here?
>>
>> On Dec 5, 2012, at 12:41 PM, Cynthia Wong wrote:
>>
>> > The final version of the standard should show up here... eventually:
>> >
>> > http://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/publications/Pages/latest.aspx
>> >
>> > http://www.itu.int/dms_pages/itu-t/rec/T-REC-RSS.xml
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: liberationtech-bounces at lists.stanford.edu [mailto:liberationtech-bounces at lists.stanford.edu] On Behalf Of Asher Wolf
>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 7:38 AM
>> > To: liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu
>> > Subject: Re: [liberationtech] /. ITU Approves Deep Packet Inspection
>> >
>> > From http://committee.tta.or.kr :
>> > Revision of Y.2770 Requirements for #DPI in Next Generation Networks http://bit.ly/Yx0Sya (via @BetweenMyths)
>> >
>> > On 5/12/12 9:25 PM, Andre Rebentisch wrote:
>> >> Am 05.12.2012 10:27, schrieb Eugen Leitl:
>> >>> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/12/05/0115214/itu-approves-deep-pack
>> >>> et-inspection
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ITU Approves Deep Packet Inspection
>> >>>
>> >>> Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday December 04, @08:19PM
>> >>>
>> >>> from the inspect-my-encryption-all-you'd-like dept.
>> >>>
>> >>> dsinc sends this quote from Techdirt about the International
>> >>> Telecommunications Union's ongoing conference in Dubai that will have
>> >>> an effect on the internet everywhere:
>> >> The WCIT is a "diplomatic conference" for the rules governing the ITU,
>> >> the ITRs. It seems wrong to mix that with ongoing specific
>> >> standardisation work of the ITU.
>> >>
>> >> Anyway, interesting discussions over at circleid.com:
>> >> http://www.circleid.com/posts/20121203_wcit_off_to_a_flying_start/
>> >> Apparently ITU fellows are disgruntled that they cannot control the
>> >> media coverage and complain about all the "misinformation".
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >> André
>> >>
>> >>
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>
> --
> Petter Ericson (pettter at acc.umu.se)
>
> Telecomix Sleeper Jellyfish
> --
> Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password at: https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

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Fenwick McKelvey
Postdoctoral Fellow
Visiting Scholar, University of Washington
http://fenwickmckelvey.com