[liberationtech] Fw: [progressiveexchange] Facebook interfering with activism Pages

Tue Sep 21 11:03:06 PDT 2010

I guess that was my point. 
Application makers don't control those "substantive rules." 
Even perfect net neutrality can't make terms of service go away completely, for content- or action-driven offenses, can it? As cool as it would be (and interesting to me as something I think about a lot) self-enforcement just doesn't exist in either policy or architecture. Could be a very long time before it does, if it ever does.

I'm just saying that it's something to think about - for all that Disapora may do in un-leveraging Facebook's absolute control, it's nonetheless subject to myriad, mismatched terms of service. Also, the top-down control exerted by Facebook does maintain a degree of usability and civility that I'd argue keeps it attractive to large numbers of people.

There's no big, central point to these thoughts, just some observations about possible futures based on past thoughts and software design in the same space.

On Sep 21, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Lauren Gelman wrote:

> 
> Yes. substantive rules have to include network neutrality, open spectrum, etc.
> 
> On Sep 21, 2010, at 10:14 AM, Jim Youll wrote:
> 
>> There is a problem with the market approach:
>> 
>> 	The Diaspora market exists inside another market, the ISP market, which is again contained within corporations with self-interest and top-down control structures.
>> 
>> It's still turtles all the way down. There is no escape from that in the current network structure. There used to be, when the Internet was really "hands-off" and content-agnostic. But 1995 was a long time ago. 
>> 
>> Everything at the Application layer and up is subject to control by the layers below, and these layers are out of the hands of application distributors. ISPs can cut off spammers who originate non-locally-damaging traffic to meet the policy objectives or good-neighbor requests of peers. This power exists and can't be overcome. Worse, sometimes "we" good-hearted, well-meaning people /like it/ when traffic is choked off somewhere in the stack because it's not traffic we want.
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 21, 2010, at 9:58 AM, Lauren Gelman wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> ahh. The question that launched a thousand debates.  There is *never* a quick answer to this question (i.e., does freedom in iraq mean free speech or free elections?) For your question, I believe in the former (substantive requirements) but their are many firmly in the latter (procedural equality) camp. I'd prefer to see affirmative privacy protecting features in Diaspora but they are banking instead on the "market" approach-- that as long as users can take their data elsewhere, activists will be able to create/find a provider that meets their needs. Time will tell. 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 21, 2010, at 9:44 AM, Mary Joyce wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Would it be appropriate to create a list of policy recommendations/standards for social media platforms that host political content or is it as simple as "ToS should be applied equally to all users"?  
>>>> 
>>>> Mary
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Yosem Companys <companys at stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>> This is why we need peer to peer solutions like Diaspora to provide a platform for activists.  Otherwise the corporate structure of these tech firms can always interfere in one way or another to direct activity.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Jillian C. York <jilliancyork at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi - Jillian York here (have been lurking for a couple of weeks).  I was interviewed for that article and would like to add this just-released paper I wrote on the same subject: http://bit.ly/8ZN8PH
>>>> 
>>>> The paper ("Policing Content in the Quasi-Public Sphere") looks at the content regulation policies of 5 social media platforms--Twitter, Flickr, Blogger, Facebook, and YouTube.  I won't give away the ending ;)
>>>> 
>>>> -Jillian
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Katrin Verclas <katrinverclas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Thoughts, colleagues!
>>>> 
>>>> ------Original Message------
>>>> From: Colin Delany
>>>> Sender: Progressive Exchange
>>>> To: Progressive Exchange
>>>> ReplyTo: Colin Delany
>>>> Subject: [progressiveexchange] Facebook interfering with activism Pages
>>>> Sent: Sep 20, 2010 3:34 PM
>>>> 
>>>> Activists upset with Facebook
>>>> http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/42364.html
>>>> 
>>>> Claims they've violated terms of service.  Discuss.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --cpd
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ~~~----~~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
>>>> Group Links:
>>>> 
>>>>  * To reply to sender (Colin Delany):
>>>>   cpd at epolitics.com
>>>> 
>>>>  * To view sender's profile, click this link:
>>>>   http://www.progressiveexchange.org/profile.htm?mode=vp&pid=2401
>>>> 
>>>>  • To visit this group on the web, go to:
>>>>   http://www.progressiveexchange.org/group.htm?igid=3
>>>> 
>>>>  • To send email to entire group:
>>>>   Discuss at progressiveexchange.org
>>>> 
>>>>  • To email the group moderator(s) (Eve, Jonathan, Steve, Marc):
>>>>   Discuss-moderator at progressiveexchange.org
>>>> 
>>>>  • UNSUBSCRIBE or change delivery settings:
>>>>   http://www.progressiveexchange.org/p.htm?m=qs&em=katrinverclas@gmail.com&sk=vTtA2Z
>>>> 
>>>> Powered by GoLightly, ProgressiveExchange's Collaboration Platform of Choice.
>>>> http://www.golightly.com/
>>>> ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~~~~-~--~
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent via BlackBerry
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> liberationtech mailing list
>>>> liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu
>>>> 
>>>> Should you need to change your subscription options, please go to:
>>>> 
>>>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Berkman Center for Internet and Society | https://cyber.law.harvard.edu/people/jyork
>>>> jilliancyork.com | @jilliancyork | tel: +1-857-891-4244
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> liberationtech mailing list
>>>> liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu
>>>> 
>>>> Should you need to change your subscription options, please go to:
>>>> 
>>>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> liberationtech mailing list
>>>> liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu
>>>> 
>>>> Should you need to change your subscription options, please go to:
>>>> 
>>>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> MARY C. JOYCE
>>>> Founder | The Meta-Activism Project  | Meta-Activism.org
>>>> "Digital Activism Decoded"  |  New Book Drops in Summer 2010
>>>> Mobile | +1.857.928.1297
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> liberationtech mailing list
>>>> liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu
>>>> 
>>>> Should you need to change your subscription options, please go to:
>>>> 
>>>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> liberationtech mailing list
>>> liberationtech at lists.stanford.edu
>>> 
>>> Should you need to change your subscription options, please go to:
>>> 
>>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>> 
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.stanford.edu/pipermail/liberationtech/attachments/20100921/b8a25212/attachment.html>