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<p>So what specifically is immoral about cryptocurrencies in your
opinion?</p>
<p>Also, throwing grarpamp in the Trump sack was a bit out of the
blue? He had some good points if you just ignore the writing
style. Some groups are ringing bells about cashless societies, for
example (last link in Spanish):</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/jun/24/you-cant-pay-cash-here-how-cashless-society-harms-most-vulnerable">https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/jun/24/you-cant-pay-cash-here-how-cashless-society-harms-most-vulnerable</a></p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://collateralbits.net/la-maldicion-del-dinero/">https://collateralbits.net/la-maldicion-del-dinero/</a></p>
<p>This mailing list always turns hostile for no reason. Since you
are experts, why not educate people when somebody raises a point
here?<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/22/21 9:18 AM, Phillip
Hallam-Baker wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMm+Lwg+8456wG9n3b3_COY_h3+zoZFiP2d2Nbjb+yMEV_JPSA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, May 22, 2021
at 3:32 AM Lee Alley <<a
href="mailto:lee@morganalley.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">lee@morganalley.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div>
<p>Right, so let's look at this by the numbers (or
the paragraphs)....<br>
</p>
<div>On 21/05/2021 20:02, Phillip Hallam-Baker
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div style="font-size:small">I find the
Trotskyite-Libertarianism of the
coinsplainers to be a crushing bore. The
arguments are infantile, ignorant and
insulting.</div>
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</div>
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</blockquote>
<p>Yep, categorise someone into a coalition of the
"loathsome". So far so good <span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">✔</span></p>
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</blockquote>
<span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I
chaired a conference on Digital Cash, including
alt-currencies in 1996. BitCoin is not new, it is
merely the latest in a long line of Ponzi schemes,
gold bug schemes, etc. eGold, GoldAge... there were
many and the feds crushed them all.</span></div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I
coined the term 'coinsplainers' from 'mansplainers'
because these people invariably begin their response
to any criticism by telling me I an ignorant of a
field I am generally considered to be one of the top
experts. The assumption being that the only reason
someone could possibly disagree with them is through
ignorance.</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
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<div>
<p>(Also shows zero clue as to what a Libertarian
actually is, vs what the corporate press
ignorantly likes to brand them as)</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I
am not the only person who finds the self styled
'Libertarians' to be aggressively authoritarian. The
reason I bracket them with the Trotskyites is that
the ideologies are essentially based on the same
notion of ripping up the existing social order so
that they can replace it with a new one more to
their liking. At no point do they show the lightest
interest in the consent of those they would govern,
they are merely the 'sheep'.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">The
fact that Libertarianism is a Trotskyite creed is
further demonstrated by the fact that large numbers
of Trotskyites have moved over. The
'neo-conservatives' began as a Trotskyite faction at
NYU, they switched in the mid 70s as it emerged that
they had ratted out the Communist faction to
Hoover's FBI. 'Spiked', the Libertarian rag heavily
promoted by the Koch network is run by the former
editors of a Socialist Worker rag.</div>
</div>
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<div style="font-size:small">Don't be
fooled by the techno-babble, these same
people have been at the same old
libertopian schemes since the mid 90s.
Every time it is different, every time
it is the same. The Feds crushed e-Gold
which was beyond reach of government.
Then the Feds crushed gold age which
beyond reach of government. BitCoin is
the reason gas prices soared last week
with the Colonial Pipeline attack.
Fixing cybersecurity is expensive.
Criminalizing crypto-currencies is a
much cheaper approach.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<p>Create straw man arguments without any context
and only tenuous relevance then burn them
(interestingly showing an "I'm on the govt's side
and I'm here to help"* admission) before showing
catastrophically naive economic illiteracy (I've
never seen people accuse dollars of being the
reason behind bank robberies or the reason they
got mugged, and I missed that bit in the thread
about the trillions Obama, Trump and Biden have
spent/will spend pretty pointlessly that your
grandchildren will have to pay back, to say
nothing of letting your children clean up the
inflation heading our way).<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">
✔</span></p>
<p>* Where help == govt crushing anything that
threatens its total control of everything, or
people doing things for themselves<br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I
have done cyber security for 25 years. If an
obnoxious group of people call me stupid and tell me
that the government can't crush them, it amuses me
to show governments how to do just that: Go after
the exchanges, go after Tether.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">That
someone disagrees with your unconventional economic
views does not make them 'naive'. Nor is being on
the governments when the government is trying to
stop gangs of international criminals who are
holding critical infrastructure to ransom a bad
thing. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">BitCoin
and company are currently using more electricity
than the entire nation of Argentina. That is not a
small country by any measure. The entire premise of
BTC is proof of waste. I find that offensive. The
naked greed that the crypto-currency world shows
putting their crypto wallet ahead of the planet
disgusts me. And calling me names isn't going to
discourage me either.</div>
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<div style="font-size:small">I see
absolutely nothing moral in
crypto-currencies. Anyone can prattle on
about 'freedom'. Tump's jackbooted goons
stormed the capitol on Jan 6th in the
name of 'freedom', they called everyone
who opposed them 'sheep'. By their
fruits shall ye know them: grarpamp's
language clearly shows him to be a
bully. His only concept of 'freedom' is
there being nothing to stop him bullying
others.</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<p>And in the denouement, up the ante on the ad
hominem, calling grarpamp a Trump goon with the
implied accusation of fault in all this. <span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">✔</span></p>
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</blockquote>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I
did not call him a Trump goon, I merely pointed out
that his use of language is the same, as is yours.
You have not set out to address any issue I raised
in good faith, your only interest was to try and
bully me.</div>
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<div> </div>
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<p><span
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Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">
</span></p>
<p>This is a masterclass in gaslighting but never,
ever addresses the points raised.</p>
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</blockquote>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">You
describe your post perfectly.</div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Faced
with a concrete, representative example of the harm
done by BitCoin, your response is whataboutery.
BitCoin is the most expensive means of moving money
there is right now. As of today, transactions cost
$22 each which is vastly more than any rival payment
scheme. Absolutely the only reason to use BTC as a
payment mechanism is if the transaction is criminal.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Ransomware
would simply not be profitable without 'untraceable'
cash. Internet sales of child abuse, illegal drugs
etc. would not be viable without the same. The only
quasi-legitimate use of BTC was using it to evade
China's currency controls which is what was shut
down last week. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I
don't use the term 'crypto-currency' because
cryptography has been my professional career. I
prefer the term criminal-currency.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">The
Colonial Pipeline event was the beginning of the end
for criminal-currencies. China has been worried
about the effect of evading currency controls for
quite a while but Colonial Pipeline was the event
that caused the axe to fall now. Jim Cramer on MSNBC
switched from being a criminal-currency booster
telling people to put 5% of their assets in BTC to
being strongly opposed boasting that he has sold out
and bought a farm with the profits. The appearance
of NFTs was further evidence that peak crazy had
been reached.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I
saw exactly the same thing in the early 00s, Back
then people would attack me for pointing out that
'hackers' were causing criminal damage and they
weren't just doing it for fun. Kevin Mitnick had
50,000 stolen credit card numbers on his hard drives
when he was caught. And then people started being
hit by emails trying to get their bank account
details and suddenly the reporters got it - these
people are criminals, we should stop interviewing
them as folk heroes and start talking about how to
stop Internet crime.</div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">The
tide is certainly beginning to turn.</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
GPG: 9C2A AF1D CC91 0A53 AB0A B6A1 C457 0E01 081F 8F91
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/">https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/</a></pre>
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