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<p>Yeah, don't get me wrong, I still prefer a public and
forever-archived mailing list even after having considered
everything else. It's just that some people these days seem to
forget that human language is contextual, particularly those that
dwell in the sharp-edged plains of social media.</p>
<p>Signal has group chats and they work well. I just don't think
they are a good mailing list replacement, particularly because
they are invite-only; you can't "subscribe" to a group (you don't
even get to list or see groups).<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/3/20 9:07 AM, Yosem Companys
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CANhci9EaAqzRr90T5RpbM2Z45hd+4KHdDNbzH9u29aPjWr43Xw@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>These are all excellent points. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>BTW, you might remember there was much debate over whether
the list should be private or public, but the decision was
made to make it public because otherwise it would have granted
an illusion of privacy that would not have protected
vulnerable populations from adversaries seeking to hack the
list.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Things have changed since then, and there are now apps
available like Signal that could be used for this purpose. Are
any of these set up to function as large "mailing" lists?<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 4:34 PM
Marc Sunet <<a href="mailto:msunet@shellblade.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">msunet@shellblade.net</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>It's a good one, here is a related one that talks about
the social effects:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.socialcooling.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.socialcooling.com/</a></p>
<p>To me, part of the problem is that online communications
are constantly creating a permanent record, like Snowden
puts it. This list, for example, should really be regarded
as private, a conversation with the liberation folks. But
it's actually public by virtue of having an eternal record
of everything said here made available on a discoverable
part the Web. Any joke, criticism or statement can then be
taken out of context and copy-pasted somewhere else; in
the worst case, this results in a public lynching of the
author. The lack of privacy then leads to a chilling
effect, to self-censorship; every word must be carefully
measured, even the email address you send this from and
other metadata must be considered.<br>
</p>
<p>On the other hand, if the mailing list record just
self-destructed after a while (Signal does this with
messages), then the problem would not be as bad.
Copy-pasting something out of context and lynching the
author would now have to be a targeted attack as opposed
to something you can do retroactively any day and any
time. Most people would not bother unless you were a
high-profile target. The same arguments Snowden makes
about the NSA collecting a permanent record to then
retroactively find crime as opposed to looking for
evidence for an existing investigation apply to online
social communication just as well.<br>
</p>
<p>There is of course value in making the list publicly
available to build community, provide a learning resource
and so on, so automated self-destruction seems like a good
balance and default to me. Things become semi-private, or
semi-public; words are written on sand instead of stone.<br>
</p>
<div>On 10/2/20 8:57 AM, Yosem Companys wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><a
href="https://inre.me/why-privacy-is-the-most-important-concept-of-our-time/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://inre.me/why-privacy-is-the-most-important-concept-of-our-time/</a></div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/">https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/</a></pre>
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