<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 24 Apr 2020, at 20:29, msunet <<a href="mailto:msunet@shellblade.net" class="">msunet@shellblade.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Palatino-Roman; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">There was some talk about this at the Flatten the Curve Summit. At first, I thought this technology would be interesting, but now I have doubts about it. It doesn't seem very useful to trace people if you can't test them, first of all. </span></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>If traces are not already being collected, then the test result can’t be transmitted to likely exposed persons.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Palatino-Roman; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">I also wonder how the random numbers are generated -- will they use your device or advertising ID? How can you tell when they embed this technology in their proprietary, secret OSes anyway? I also haven't seen what the authentication layer is -- will you need a google account? -- or more generally, how they plan to protect the system from attackers. It's also not clear to me who owns the data, where it is stored, how much of it, or for how long. And when does the tracing end? </span></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Apple/Google anouncement covers this.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Palatino-Roman; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">They also have not solved fundamental problems about this tech, like signals going through walls.</span></div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div>Sound can also be used.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Here are my links:</div><div><br class=""></div><div><div class="">conflict between France and Apple/Google, because the privacy of the French app is weaker than that permitted by the Apple/Google approach:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52366129" class="" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;">https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52366129</a><br class="" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;"><div class="" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;"><a href="https://www.wired.com/story/apple-google-contact-tracing-strengths-weaknesses/" class="">https://www.wired.com/story/apple-google-contact-tracing-strengths-weaknesses/</a></div><div class="" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;">UK app also conflicts:</div><div class="" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;"><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/16/nhs-in-standoff-with-apple-and-google-over-coronavirus-tracing" class="">https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/16/nhs-in-standoff-with-apple-and-google-over-coronavirus-tracing</a></div><div class="" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;">These conflicting approaches are dangerous and will not work:</div><div class="" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;"><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/20/coronavirus-digital-contact-tracing-will-fail-unless-privacy-is-respected-experts-warn" class="">https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/20/coronavirus-digital-contact-tracing-will-fail-unless-privacy-is-respected-experts-warn</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;" class="">Credential solution for low resource areas:</div><div style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;" class=""><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3totKQ_BnBc" class="">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3totKQ_BnBc</a></div><div style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;" class=""><a href="https://medium.com/coviid/our-vision-for-covi-id-3ee2a1fe3049" class="">https://medium.com/coviid/our-vision-for-covi-id-3ee2a1fe3049</a></div></div><div style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-family: Palatino-Roman;" class=""><div class=""><div class="">The rights issue:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://exposurealerting.org/" class="">https://exposurealerting.org/</a></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Audio to increase accuracy:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://www.novid.org/" class="">https://www.novid.org/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">This addresses privacy issues with audio as a way of with stopping the through-the-wall Bluetooth contact errors:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://www.wired.com/2016/11/block-ultrasonic-signals-didnt-know-tracking/" class="">https://www.wired.com/2016/11/block-ultrasonic-signals-didnt-know-tracking/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">One way to self-generate credentials, while protecting privacy</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://blog.openmined.org/ckks-homomorphic-encryption-pytorch-pysyft-seal/" class="">https://blog.openmined.org/ckks-homomorphic-encryption-pytorch-pysyft-seal/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://blog.openmined.org/pysyft-pytorch-intel-sgx/" class="">https://blog.openmined.org/pysyft-pytorch-intel-sgx/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Objections:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://www.wired.com/story/apple-google-contact-tracing-wont-stop-covid-alone/" class="">https://www.wired.com/story/apple-google-contact-tracing-wont-stop-covid-alone/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A not that clear objection to Apple/Google standard:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://medium.com/asecuritysite-when-bob-met-alice/the-flawed-world-of-contact-tracing-wheres-carol-the-tester-3939ac92488a" class="">https://medium.com/asecuritysite-when-bob-met-alice/the-flawed-world-of-contact-tracing-wheres-carol-the-tester-3939ac92488a</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">dss</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">David Stodolsky, PhD Institute for Social Informatics<br class="">Tornskadestien 2, st. th., DK-2400 Copenhagen NV, Denmark<br class=""><a href="mailto:dss@socialinformatics.org" class="">dss@socialinformatics.org</a> Tel./Signal: +45 3095 4070</div></div></div>
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