<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">The cluster of AVT, AVTCORE, AVTEXT, PAYLOAD, and XRBLOCK WGs are very tightly related, and we have email history going back >25 years from the early research, through a massive boom in activity, to the current stage as the groups wind down. Those might be interesting to look at.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Or the IPv6 effort?<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Colin</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 26 Aug 2020, at 18:52, Niels ten Oever <<a href="mailto:mail@nielstenoever.net" class="">mail@nielstenoever.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Very interesting. I'd say the number if drafts and authors in hrpc is too low to make a statement about this though. Could we do this for the HTTP and/or DNS WGs ?</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Aug 26, 2020, at 19:30, Sebastian Benthall <<a href="mailto:sbenthall@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sbenthall@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Hello,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I'm revisiting the question of whether mailing list gender diversity and draft productivity of working groups are correlated.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Putting aside for now all the methodological complications, here is how I am operationalizing the question:</div><div class=""><ul class=""><li class="">I'm looking specifically at the HRPC working group, with this data:<br class=""><div class=""><img src="cid:ii_kebmxpaa1" alt="image.png" width="418" height="221" class=""><br class=""></div></li><li class=""><div class="">Gender is being detected based on first name birth records. "unknown" is used for cases that cannot with the current data set be determined as either men or women.</div></li><li class="">I'm measuring "diversity" on any day as: (women's activity + unknown's activity) / (men's activity). Because, you know, this is probably close to what most people probably mean by diversity. (Recall that non-Western names are more likely to be categorized as "unknown".)<br class=""></li><li class="">I'm using a 100 day rolling average on the activity counts.</li></ul><div class="">This is the matrix of Pearson correlations between each of these values:</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><table class="gmail-dataframe" border="1"><thead class=""><tr style="text-align:right" class=""><th class=""></th>
<th class="">women</th>
<th class="">unknown</th>
<th class="">men</th>
<th class="">drafts</th>
<th class="">diversity</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody class="">
<tr class="">
<th class="">women</th>
<td class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">1.000000</font></td>
<td class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">0.910922</font></td>
<td class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">0.804869</font></td>
<td class="">0.008890</td>
<td class="">0.160833</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<th class="">unknown</th>
<td class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">0.910922</font></td>
<td class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">1.000000</font></td>
<td class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">0.808168</font></td>
<td class="">0.027502</td>
<td class="">0.245059</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<th class="">men</th>
<td class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">0.804869</font></td>
<td class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">0.808168</font></td>
<td class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">1.000000</font></td>
<td class="">0.015406</td>
<td class="">-0.141915</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<th class="">drafts</th>
<td class=""><font color="#cc0000" class="">0.008890</font></td>
<td class=""><font color="#cc0000" class="">0.027502</font></td>
<td class=""><font color="#cc0000" class="">0.015406</font></td>
<td class="">1.000000</td>
<td class=""><font color="#cc0000" class="">0.061884</font></td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<th class="">diversity</th>
<td class=""><font color="#674ea7" class="">0.160833</font></td>
<td class=""><font color="#674ea7" class="">0.245059</font></td>
<td class=""><font color="#674ea7" class="">-0.141915</font></td>
<td class="">0.061884</td>
<td class="">1.000000<br class=""></td></tr></tbody></table><br class="">Things to note:</div><div class=""><ul class=""><li class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">The activity of each gender is correlated with the activity of other genders.</font></li><li class=""><font color="#674ea7" class="">Diversity is anticorrelated with the number of men. This is expected based on how it was defined, and a good sanity check.</font></li><li class=""><font color="#cc0000" class="">Draft output is MORE correlated with diversity than it is with any individual gender!</font></li></ul><div class=""><font class="">This last point is quite nice. It resonates with the work of Scott Page on the value of diversity to collective intelligence, for example.</font></div><div class=""><font class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font class="">These numbers are a bit hard to interpret. How much should we trust them? These are the <i class="">p</i>-values associated with each correlation:</font></div><div class=""><table class="gmail-dataframe" border="1"><thead class=""><tr style="text-align:right" class=""><th class=""></th>
<th class="">women</th>
<th class="">unknown</th>
<th class="">men</th>
<th class="">drafts</th>
<th class="">diversity</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody class="">
<tr class="">
<th class="">women</th>
<td class="">0</td>
<td class="">0</td>
<td class="">0</td>
<td class=""><font color="#cccccc" class="">0.6925</font></td>
<td class="">0</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<th class="">unknown</th>
<td class="">0</td>
<td class="">0</td>
<td class="">0</td>
<td class=""><font color="#cccccc" class="">0.221</font></td>
<td class="">0</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<th class="">men</th>
<td class="">0</td>
<td class="">0</td>
<td class="">0</td>
<td class=""><font color="#cccccc" class="">0.493</font></td>
<td class="">0</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<th class="">drafts</th>
<td class=""><font color="#cccccc" class="">0.6925</font></td>
<td class=""><font color="#cccccc" class="">0.221</font></td>
<td class=""><font color="#cccccc" class="">0.493</font></td>
<td class="">0</td>
<td class=""><font color="#ff0000" class="">0.0059</font></td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<th class="">diversity</th>
<td class="">0</td>
<td class="">0</td>
<td class="">0</td>
<td class=""><font color="#ff0000" class="">0.0059</font></td>
<td class="">0</td></tr></tbody></table></div><br class=""></div><div class="">Generally, <i class="">p</i>-values below .01 are considered "statistically significant", i.e. publishable.</div><div class="">This correlation between diversity and draft output makes the cut!!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">So the verdict is: for HRPC, YES, gender diversity is correlated with draft output.</font></div><div class=""><font color="#0000ff" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font class="">This result is robust to transformations of the activity scores into the log space, which is comforting.</font></div><div class=""><span style="" class="">Further work is needed to see if this result is robust across other IETF working groups.</span></div><div class=""><span style="" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><font class="">Nick, what would you say to including a result like this in the paper about IETF and gender?</font></div><div class=""><font class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font class="">Cheers,<br class="">Seb</font></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div>
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<br class=""><br class="">-- <br class="">Colin Perkins<br class=""><a href="https://csperkins.org/" class="">https://csperkins.org/</a><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">
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